Glock 20 problems/questions

[WillyWilly]

So about a week ago I picked up a brand new Glock 20. During the 10 day wait
I ordered some Underwood ammo. I got some 180 TMJ, 180 XTP JHP, and 220 Hard Cast. First range trip it seemed to do okay with the TMJ but had a couple failures with the JHP. I didn't even shoot the Hard Cast.

So, I ended up ordering a 22 lb recoil spring as well as some prvi partizan 180 gr JHP (not as hot as the underwood ammo).

Today I shot 100 rounds of the prvi partizan JHP using the stock recoil spring (17 lbs I believe) without an issue. No failures, good accuracy. Then I put in the stiffer recoil spring and proceed to shoot the hot underwood loads. Major loss of accuracy. Shooting low and left. I had a couple FTE FTL with the JHP and the Hard Cast. I also noticed that about a few of the hard cast seem to be tumbling, putting oblong holes in targets at ~10 yards.

So, my question is if anyone has had the same problem and how they solved it. I haven't tried buffalo bore ammo yet but dont really want to shell out the money if I will encounter the same problems as I have with the Underwood. Perhaps a longer barrel will help with the tumbling, but again, is it worth the investment?

I intend to use the gun not necessarily for hunting but as protection when hiking, backpacking so if someone can recommend a good 10mm load that I can shoot through the stock barrel I would appreciate it.

I also thought about using as an HD weapon instead of the Glock 26 that I have been using because it has a rail for a light and the 26 does not, but
I dont really feel comfortable doing that yet , not with the failures it has had with the Underwood JHP. I've never had any failures with my 26 that I have put lots and lots of rounds through the past few years.

[003]

If you are right handed, shooting low left is an indication that you are pulling off target in anticipation of the recoil.


Now I do not claim to be an expert on Glock pistols, but I did go through the one day armorer’s course. According to the Glock professionals, there is no need to change out the spring or any other part as long as you are shooting SAMMI spec ammunition. Try the underwood ammunition with the stock spring. Be sure to click the link and read the article on low left.

http://www.guns.com/2011/09/22/do-you-shoot-low-and-left-lets-examine-your-grip/

[WillyWilly]

If you are right handed, shooting low left is an indication that you are pulling off target in anticipation of the recoil.

http://www.guns.com/2011/09/22/do-yo...ine-your-grip/

I though about that too. Thing is, when shooting the glock 26 and the lighter 10mm loads I'm dead on. I use the exact same form when shooting the hotter loads. I suppose I could be subconsciously anticipating the increased recoil from the heavier recoil spring and bigger bang the underwood ammo gives.

[5.56Geo]

I own a G20sf, my comments are first hand. I as 003 mentioned I believe you were anticipating the recoil with the hotter loads. Remember that putting a heavier recoil spring will only increase the felt recoil. There are two major reasons people use heavier recoil spring; to allow the case to stay supported longer in the chamber minimizing possible case failure due to the high pressures and the other reason is so the minimize slide/frame abuse as the slide recoils back and slams against the frame.

Now as far as the tumbling, I can't help there. ...possible undersized projectiles???

I think you should shoot it more with the same bullet weight and become familiar with the gun before any upgrades. My $0.02 FWIW.
Hope that helps.

[5.56Geo]

I though about that too. Thing is, when shooting the glock 26 and the lighter 10mm loads I'm dead on. I use the exact same form when shooting the hotter loads. I suppose I could be subconsciously anticipating the increased recoil from the heavier recoil spring and bigger bang the underwood ammo gives.

The 10mm is in a league of its own when it come to semi-autos.

It will take a few sessions to the range before you get it figured out. Just wait until you start reloading!

[WillyWilly]

I own a G20sf, my comments are first hand. I as 003 mentioned I believe you were anticipating the recoil with the hotter loads. Remember that putting a heavier recoil spring will only increase the felt recoil. There are two major reasons people use heavier recoil spring; to allow the case to stay supported longer in the chamber minimizing possible case failure due to the high pressures and the other reason is so the minimize slide/frame abuse as the slide recoils back and slams against the frame.

Now as far as the tumbling, I can't help there. ...possible undersized projectiles???

I think you should shoot it more with the same bullet weight and become familiar with the gun before any upgrades. My $0.02 FWIW.
Hope that helps.

Thanks for the input. My 20 is also the sf model, didn't specify that in the original post.

[buffybuster]

The Glock polygonal rifling is fickle about shooting lead. That might be the cause for the tumbling. Glock's can shoot lead, but they have to be sized correctly and of the right hardness.

[MmmSti]

I run a KKM Precision barrel with a tungsten 22lb recoil spring. Have yet to have any issues at all with that setup, generally shooting reloads.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[ihasacookie]

I did some research on Glock issues (specifically the 20) before jailing one and it came down to two different issues AFAIK.

1. Glock 20 does not really like heavy cast bullets: Hickok45 seemed to have the same issue with the 230gr hard cast from Double Tap. The 200gr seemed ok.

2. "Limp wristing" the Glock can induce failures. MAC on youtube can probably explain it better than I can.

Yeah I have too much time...

[Bill Steele]

I think your accuracy issues are due to the recoil. Don't take it personally, everyone has issues when velocity and bullet weight goes up. The more you practice the less the effect will be, but heavy recoiling rounds will always screw with your accuracy, there is a reason target loads tend to be light.

Geo was right about the 22lb recoil spring, it mainly is there to keep the slide off the frame in recoil. If I use the stock recoil spring with 180gr bullets from about 1225fps up, I get frame battering with my G20SF. The bad news is the heavier spring also transfers more felt recoil. I prefer my gun unbattered so I leave the 22lb spring in, it will cycle my lightest 40S&W loads as well, so no going back to stock for me.

Buffybuster and icookie were spot on with regard to heavy lead projectiles and the stock Glock 20 barrel. Guys run aftermarket traditional rifled barrels to fix those issues. Personally, I think 220gr is too heavy for the 10 anyway. The heaviest WFNGC bullets I load are 200gr.

For SD, you really don't need 180gr XTP's going 1300fps. Premium 40S&W (like Speer Gold Dots or Federal HST's will be plenty). Save the UW 180gr XTP's for the woods.

Big two handed grip, firm wrists, practice, practice, practice.

[Carcassonne]

The Glock polygonal rifling is fickle about shooting lead. That might be the cause for the tumbling. Glock's can shoot lead, but they have to be sized correctly and of the right hardness.

+1

Glocks don't like shooting lead above a certain velocity, but they can still be used, and you have to watch out for lead buildup. I can shoot 9mm bullets out of my stock Gen 2 Glock 17 without problems. The larger the bullet diameter and greater the mass, the more rotational inertia it has, and the more it resists either speeding up or slowing down in revolutions. The higher the velocity for a set rifle twist rate, the higher the amount of revolutions per time interval. Not being able to start spinning as fast as the rifle twist rate caused the lead to strip and prevents the bullet from stabilizing in flight. You need either a slower velocity for the given lead hardness, or harder lead. A gas check would probably help as well.

I bet 357 SIG Glocks don't shoot lead very good either.



.

[WillyWilly]

I think your accuracy issues are due to the recoil. Don't take it personally, everyone has issues when velocity and bullet weight goes up. The more you practice the less the effect will be, but heavy recoiling rounds will always screw with your accuracy, there is a reason target loads tend to be light.

Geo was right about the 22lb recoil spring, it mainly is there to keep the slide off the frame in recoil. If I use the stock recoil spring with 180gr bullets from about 1225fps up, I get frame battering with my G20SF. The bad news is the heavier spring also transfers more felt recoil. I prefer my gun unbattered so I leave the 22lb spring in, it will cycle my lightest 40S&W loads as well, so no going back to stock for me.

Buffybuster and icookie were spot on with regard to heavy lead projectiles and the stock Glock 20 barrel. Guys run aftermarket traditional rifled barrels to fix those issues. Personally, I think 220gr is too heavy for the 10 anyway. The heaviest WFNGC bullets I load are 200gr.

For SD, you really don't need 180gr XTP's going 1300fps. Premium 40S&W (like Speer Gold Dots or Federal HST's will be plenty). Save the UW 180gr XTP's for the woods.

Big two handed grip, firm wrists, practice, practice, practice.

Duly noted, thank you. I failed to mention I am concerned about accuracy because I listed my G20 on my ccw application i turned in last week (along with my G26 and Kahr CW9). Ill need to order some more of the weaker loads to qualify with while I practice with the hotter stuff (assuming I get approved). Not sure what I'll do with the hard cast rounds I have. To be honest, I am a little uncomfortable shooting them with the tumbling and failures. I'd hate for my new Glock to kaboom on me (I'm admittidly paranoid). So, new question, can anyone point me to a good resource for someone who wants to start reloading on a budget and that very limited space to reload?

Thanks again for all the replies.

[Baboosh]

I have a tumbling issue in my 17 due to too much crimp.

Not sure if that'll help you or not but thought I would throw it out there.

[NickZag]

I also have a G20sf and can't really add anything else to the conversation that others haven't mentioned as they're advise was pretty solid. If ammo is a concern, I've shot American eagle, Remington, and armscor all in 180g without any issues or failures so far.

[SILENT GUNMAN]

My Glock 20 had failure to load on the last round of every mag when shooting hpr hollow points. It eats everything else, including .40s&w, just fine. Give the double tap 155 grain Barnes load a try. Its a full power load that shoots very well out of my G20. Its also lead free so its legal to carry while hunting. They work so well that its all I have loaded in my mags these days. I was out pig hunting with my 30-06 a few months ago. Couldn't find a pig to save my life that day. It also happened to be rabbit season at the time. I came across a rabbit and decided I wasn't going home empty handed. I knew my rifle was too much for such a small animal so I drew my pistol and took a well aimed shot from about 10-12 yards. I hit right in the center of its chest. That Barnes load was devastating. The rabbit pretty much exploded leaving me with very little meat to actually take home. The next couple rabbits I saw got to live because I didn't have the right tool for the job with me.