Constructing handguns

[Skyjay]

Hello all, new to CalGuns and the CA gun legal nightmare that seems to have more twists and turns than a M. Night Shyamalan highlights reel.
I am familiar with the legality of putting together an AR/AK/RPK from a kit, but I wonder do the same rules apply for putting together something considered, legally, a handgun?
Been looking at Czech SA-26 or Polish PPS 43 kits for sale. While they're pretty cheap I am curious to see if there are some known legal or logistic pitfalls to avoid.
Thanks guys, and glad to finally stop being a lurker!

[Corbin Dallas]

Hello all, new to CalGuns and the CA gun legal nightmare that seems to have more twists and turns than a M. Night Shyamalan highlights reel.
I am familiar with the legality of putting together an AR/AK/RPK from a kit, but I wonder do the same rules apply for putting together something considered, legally, a handgun?
Been looking at Czech SA-26 or Polish PPS 43 kits for sale. While they're pretty cheap I am curious to see if there are some known legal or logistic pitfalls to avoid.
Thanks guys, and glad to finally stop being a lurker!

Time for you to start checking out the flowchart's above.

read them, know them, live by them and stay out of jail.

[sealocan]

There's also some great information about California firearm laws on the " Calguns Foundation Wiki " information pages.

do a search for it and I hope it helps you.

[SMR510]

While I am not familiar with those particular firearms I would say that in the case of a kit that comes with a frame you are SOL. The first thing that must be taken into account is if the finished weapon would be a AW as defined by CA. That is what the flowchart will tell you. The second (most of the time harder with handguns) issue is the roster of handguns certified for sale in CA. This basically makes it impossible to buy a frame alone unless it is already in CA and owned by a citizen who is trying to sell it. In that case it still needs to be a face to face transer (PPT) to avoid the roster. SSE (single shot exemption) is a valid exemption to the roster (for now) and may be applicable. It seems that the receivers are cut into pieces and are thus not considered a firearm so I think this would work.

Hopefully someone with some more experience with these type kits can give you some more info. It is a little more straightforward with a long gun due to the roster requirements of a handgun.

[morrcarr67]

PPs 43



Czech SA 26



Rifle Flow Chart

http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

Handgun Flow Chart

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

[Skyjay]

Thanks for the gentle kick in the *** folks, looks like neither of these are legal for construction in CA. I suppose I was a tad confused in that the person who steered me towards these purchases had to classify them as rifles. In this case, however, seems to say otherwise. Odd question though, I have seen short rifles, classified as pistols, that have a magazine separate from the handgrip (one I can think of is the M 85) which would mark it as illegal, however it's legal and for sale in CA; am I missing an exception here?

[SLO1911Fan]

There are 80% receivers available for the SA-26. That's kind of your only option since you appear to want to build it as a pistol. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be built without the stock and be classified as a pistol. If not, simply use a longer barrel and the non folding stock and build it as a rifle.

*Upon further review, it appears you would have to fashion a bullet button. That stupid forward grip makes this fall under the same category as the uzi.

[Quiet]

Odd question though, I have seen short rifles, classified as pistols, that have a magazine separate from the handgrip (one I can think of is the M 85) which would mark it as illegal, however it's legal and for sale in CA; am I missing an exception here?

They are legal because they use a fixed 10 or less round magazine.

It's not legal to build it so it uses detachable magazines or to have it with a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

[Skyjay]

They are legal because they use a fixed 10 or less round magazine.

It's not legal to build it so it uses detachable magazines or to have it with a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

I skipped RIGHT over the bullet button! Boy this is nice and tricky.

There are 80% receivers available for the SA-26. That's kind of your only option since you appear to want to build it as a pistol. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be built without the stock and be classified as a pistol. If not, simply use a longer barrel and the non folding stock and build it as a rifle.

*Upon further review, it appears you would have to fashion a bullet button. That stupid forward grip makes this fall under the same category as the uzi.

I didn't consider a longer barrel, that'd be an awfully LONG barrel on an SMG, but I suppose if it were classified as a rifle it would be less of a pain to make legitimately. At least the SA-26.

As for the PPS 43 if it were a fixed magazine, then it too would be CA legal (circumventing the forward grip, and not a named gun).

Fascinating! Thank you all!

[RickD427]

In addition to all of the "Assault Weapon" provisions of the Penal Code that have been discussed above, you also have to deal with the "Unsafe Handgun" provisions of the code if you're building a handgun.

Penal Code section 32000 makes it unlawful for "any person" to manufacture an "Unsafe Handgun". Sections 31900-31910 define what is required for the weapon to be considered as a "Safe Handgun." The requirements are kinda prohibitive for a personal builder. Although the requirements of the law are directed toward commercial builders, the text of the law applies to "any person" and there are no exemptions made for personal builders.

[Quiet]

In addition to all of the "Assault Weapon" provisions of the Penal Code that have been discussed above, you also have to deal with the "Unsafe Handgun" provisions of the code if you're building a handgun.

Penal Code section 32000 makes it unlawful for "any person" to manufacture an "Unsafe Handgun". Sections 31900-31910 define what is required for the weapon to be considered as a "Safe Handgun." The requirements are kinda prohibitive for a personal builder. Although the requirements of the law are directed toward commercial builders, the text of the law applies to "any person" and there are no exemptions made for personal builders.

Which means that any handgun you make needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant single-shot pistol.

[RickD427]

Which means that any handgun you make needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant single-shot pistol.

A dimensionally compliant single-shot pistol is not subject to the "Unsafe Handgun" provisions (PC section 32100).

If you go that route, please keep two things in mind:

1) If you later turn the weapon into a semi-auto, the law is untested as to whether you have "manufactured" a semi-auto. The use of SSE process to convert commercially manufactured weapons into SSE to permit their sale is a pretty well worn path. It's a little cloudy when you do the manufacturing. There is no documentation (as in the form of a DROS) of the step. Just keep your eyes open.

2) The SSE loophole came under legislative scrutiny this year. A bill was passed to ban the practice. The governor vetoed the bill because of other content in it. His veto message indicated his support for closing the loophole. That's a pretty clear invite for a single-purpose bill next year doing just that. Expect the governor to sign.

[Skyjay]

What about the exception for C&R? 32000 (b)3
Unless the the date of manufacture is considered when the gun was reassembled.


Also, is the only consideration for whether a firearm is a handgun or a rifle the barrel length? I can't seem to find the legal criteria for this.

[RickD427]

What about the exception for C&R? 32000 (b)3
Unless the the date of manufacture is considered when the gun was reassembled.


Also, is the only consideration for whether a firearm is a handgun or a rifle the barrel length? I can't seem to find the legal criteria for this.

Skyjay,

I don't have any experience with C&R stuff. I'll leave that one for more knowledgable folks to post on.

The Penal Code defines "Handguns", "Revolvers" and "Pistols" differently. Here's the text from the code:

"16640. (a) As used in this part, "handgun" means any pistol,
revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun" from
also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled
shotgun."

"16530. (a) As used in this part, the terms "firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person," "pistol," and "revolver" apply to
and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is
expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form
of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or
more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel
less than 16 inches in length.
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person," "pistol," or "revolver" from
also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled
shotgun."

From the above, it would seem if the barrel were less than 16" that it would have to be a "Pistol" or "Revolver." The definition also includes short-barreled rifles and shotguns. It's interesting that this definition makes no provision for the presence of, or requiring the absence of, a shoulder stock.

But the definition of "Handgun" makes no reference to barrel length, so long as the weapon is capable of "being concealed on the person."

[Quiet]

What about the exception for C&R? 32000 (b)3
Unless the the date of manufacture is considered when the gun was reassembled.

Parts kits do not come with a receiver.

Date of manufacture is dependent upon when the receiver was made, nto how old the parts are.

Therefore...
If you use the parts kit with an 80% receiver, it will not be a C&R firearm because it will be less than 50 years old.