Defensive ammo recommendations.

[Trenchfoot]

No over-penetration, lesser chance to hit a bystander, shoot through the wall, etc. While it's not the primary criteria, yet it's very important

I think the whole "not shooting through a wall" thing is largely marketing BS, or that they are not basing their tests on interior drywall. Most of the videos I've seen have them going through 2 interior walls, or 4 layers of drywall.





Now granted, none of those videos show a complete wall with plaster or insulation, but I wouldn't take for granted that these rounds won't penetrate a wall and retain enough weight and velocity to kill someone on the other side.

[SoCal Choppas]

357 Magnum= Hornady Critical Defense 125gr or Federal Hydra-Shok JHP 158gr
9mm= PMC Starfire
12gauge= General purpose birdshot, followed by a Winchester PDX1

[Eljay]

No over-penetration, lesser chance to hit a bystander, shoot through the wall, etc. While it's not the primary criteria, yet it's very important

That's all largely marketing hooey. Even "over penetration" - I don't know if you've seen the stats on LEO shootings but a lot of rounds just plain miss. If you miss the bad guy you're just as likely to hit a bystander no matter what your penetration. And definitely any round incapable of penetrating dry wall is useless for self defense - see the box o' truth for some basic tests.

I don't think even the air marshals use them anymore let alone regular police.

[Foxtrot40]

Awesome, thanks CG! Just the kind of feedback I was looking for. Now if I can just find some of this ammo to go try out.

[riderr]

That's all largely marketing hooey. Even "over penetration" - I don't know if you've seen the stats on LEO shootings but a lot of rounds just plain miss.

You are comparing apples and oranges. LEO are shooting in different situations at different ranges, using different weapons, etc. A hot pursuit with a lot of shooting, while hiding behind the cars is not your typical home defense drill.

If you miss the bad guy you're just as likely to hit a bystander no matter what your penetration.

However, if you hit him, you don't want the bullet to keep travelling and hitting someone behind him

And definitely any round incapable of penetrating dry wall is useless for self defense - see the box o' truth for some basic tests.

I didn't say it should be incapable to break the drywall. All I said, the round should enter the body and stay there, not travelling further going through the drywall, hitting someone else.

[Maddawg46]

Not knowing all the different SD ammo selections, I will give my 2 cents. LookEd at the Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty. Checked out the differences on their web site. The Critical defense was designed for shorter barreled CCW pistols. Hornady makes good ammo and bullets. So I went with them for my .40.
My .45 I use Speer Gold Dot on the recommendation of a retired PD chief that's my neighbor.
Federal Hydro-shock has been around fo over 20 years, so it can't be that bad. I would run some thru mthe pistol. But the cost of over $1 per round, I only shot one magazine thru my pistol. Probably need to do more, but it's pricy stuff. I did find that PDX1 in 9mm worked in my SR9C, but the .45 stuff did not feed well in my Colt Officers. So you need to try some in your gun.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

Speer Gold Dots 124 gr +P (short barrel) in a Walther PPS 9mm. You can't go wrong with most of the Gold Dot loads.

[G21Shooter]

+1 on Hornady Critical Duty.

Speer Gold Dots are top notch too.

[sholling]

I started with that list, then looked locally for what was commonly available most of the time.

Then I did this. I bought a few of the ones that were typically always available locally and test fired about 50 rounds each. Quickly eliminated a few for various reasons. Then picked one and ran another 300 rounds on various trips through it. When I hit the 300 count with no failures I loaded that round up and started to stockpile. I made sure to shoot though a dirty gun, did a few range trips with no cleaning and then shot some of the defensive rounds for a test.

Because of this I run different rounds in my 9mm than I do in the .40. What works for 1 gun in 1 situation may not work for others.

Good thinking. The only limitation is that some LE only (e.g. Federal HST) rounds are hard to come by locally.

I pointed that out to the gun shop. I always see 165 or 180gr and thats also what i bought to practice, but then they recommend this 105gr stuff and say its better than everything else. I told them I was a little skeptical because of how light the bullets are and they just looked at me like I was stupid and I had ***** on my face. So I said "hey you guys have way more knowledge that I do so ill take your word on it" So i bought a box.

In general more mass (weight) for a given diameter translates into greater penetration. In other words a 180gr 40S&W is likely to penetrate deeper (especially through bone) than a significantly lighter load. An ideal round will expand as large as possible while still penetrating at least 12" but not more than 15". The goal (developed as a result of the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami) is to be able to take a side on shot through an attacker's arm (including bone) and then though a rib and still penetrate a lung and the heart or lung and aorta (roughly 12-15" of flesh and bone). DocGKR's list is a listing of rounds that he has been involved in testing for various federal agencies that met their standards for penetration and reliable expansion.

I've been a paramedic for 23 years. In that time I've never seen anything do the amount of damage as Glaser Safety Slugs do. They are however, very expensive.

See Eljay's reply below.

I don't know about expert, but the conventional wisdom is definitely that while frangible ammunition can create some impressive looking wounds, that's not really the goal. The goal is to stop a threat. And to stop a threat you need to hit something vital. Vital stuff is usually fairly well protected, and as noted above it's very common for a round to hit somebody's hands / arms. So the FBI protocols call for quite a bit of penetration even after passing through heavy clothing (usually simulated by some layers of denim).

Yup, Dr. Martin Fackler, then the head of the US Army's Wound Ballistics Laboratory and experienced combat surgeon, debunked Glasers back in late 80s or early 90s. His tests found that Glasers made an impressive looking mess about 2-3" deep but generally failed to penetrate far enough to do significant damage to vital organs.

You'll actually notice when you look at results in ballistic gel that 9mm, .40, .45 at this point they're all engineered to come to rest at about the same depth - just a question of how big the hole is. If a round has some extra energy they just have it open a bit wider or earlier so that it comes to rest at about the desired point. The state of the art's really pretty impressive.

Yup they're all "shooting" for 12-15" of penetration.

OP, please note, however that this impressive ability is dependant on the bullet reaching the terminal velocity that the engineers planned on, which in turn depends on the barrel length meeting the standard for that round - 4" for a 9mm or 40S&W and 5" for a 45acp. That's why I use (and recommend) specially engineered short barrel ammo with short barreled handguns.

[Virus55]

winchester bonded

[e90bmw]

Would you recommend shooting about 50 rounds through the gun is a good enough test?

With the price and availability of ammo these days choices are a bit limited.

Not enough to be proficient with the pistol.
I usually go to the range with the expectation of going through at least a box of 50 and this is a refresher.

I usually go through 2-4 boxes before I feel comfortable and am able to keep the shots where I want them. YMMV

50 isn't enough.

[LoadedM333]

Federal HST
Winchester Ranger T
Speer Gold Dots

Run all these on my 9mm, .40 and .45

[Leadingall]

Federal HST in 9mm 147 gr.

See:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...f-Defense-Ammo

+1 on this

[Coolcom]

Federal HST. Because it is the best? Can be found for 9, 40, and 45 on sgammo.com

As it's been said, definitely buy a few boxes at least and make sure all rounds work flawlessly in your gun. This is critical.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10257290&postcount=20

[iluvmycolt]

Federal HST or Hydra-shok is what I use. Proven, consistent, and reliable round.