Defensive ammo recommendations.

[BigL]

Federal HST in 9mm 147 gr.

See:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...f-Defense-Ammo

I prefer federal hst however its really hard to find in 9mm. Speer gold dot is good too. I use hornady critical duty in my subcompacts guns because they feed more reliably.

[tkaraszewski]

Why are you people all so worried about ending up in court over your choice of ammo? Do you know a lot of stories about people who had cases that would have been ruled justifiable self defense except that they used the wrong sort of ammo? I have never heard of such a thing. I have definitely never heard of such a thing happening frequently enough to worry about.

[GoatLovin]

Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T. I wouldn't be worried running with Gold Dots again though.

[That1Guy1988]

I'm not saying it's bad ammo, but I'd be hard pressed to call something the best when it doesn't have a long track record of effectiveness. Will it work? Probably. My guess is that your dealer pushed it because it was probably either more expensive than other stuff in stock, or he had a bunch he was trying to get rid of.

Tnoutdoors9 has a good vid about exotic ammo, among his other excellent ammo testing vids. I believe he did one on the DRT rounds...I'll look.



**Edit: Found it. The DRT is probably one of the better performing "exotic" loads, but this is just a test in bare gel with no bones. I would have concerns that a rib or sternum shot would cause the round to fragment too early and lose a lot of penetration. I'm not a ballistics expert though, so I'm sure if my concerns are unfounded, someone will let me know.

it actually wasnt that expensive. $24.99/box. But like I said, Im a newbie so Im just quoting what I was told. Im here on the forums to learn, so teach me! lol

[Thunder]

Anything on DocGKR's list is proven good to go. Good defensive ammo is hard to come by right now but I keep Federal HSTs or Ranger-Ts in most of my 9s, 40s and 45s, and Gold Dot Short Barrel rounds in my compacts. Plan on putting at least 25-50rds (100 is better) of your chosen defensive round through your pistol to make sure it feeds reliably.

I started with that list, then looked locally for what was commonly available most of the time.

PS - whatever you decide - get several boxes and run them thru your gun at the range to make sure YOUR gun likes the round - you don't want to be in a defensive shoot and have a FTF or FTE
Steve

Then I did this. I bought a few of the ones that were typically always available locally and test fired about 50 rounds each. Quickly eliminated a few for various reasons. Then picked one and ran another 300 rounds on various trips through it. When I hit the 300 count with no failures I loaded that round up and started to stockpile. I made sure to shoot though a dirty gun, did a few range trips with no cleaning and then shot some of the defensive rounds for a test.

Because of this I run different rounds in my 9mm than I do in the .40. What works for 1 gun in 1 situation may not work for others.

[SIGSHOOTR]

-Speer Gold Dot
-Winchester Ranger T
-Remington Golden Saber
-Hornady Critical Defense

[Trenchfoot]

it actually wasnt that expensive. $24.99/box. But like I said, Im a newbie so Im just quoting what I was told. Im here on the forums to learn, so teach me! lol

Like I said, I'm not saying it doesn't work. I just prefer to use something that I know has a documented history of effectiveness in the real world, not just testing. The HST's, Gold Dots, Ranger, PDX1, Golden Saber etc... have real world documentation going for them.

The other factor you have to think about is bullet weight. Standard bullet weights for .40 are 165gr and 180gr. I prefer to practice with rounds that are the same weight as my defensive rounds. A substantially lighter bullet may shoot differently than the standard weights that you practice with. That being said, you should practice with your defensive loads on a regular basis, so if you shoot enough of them, the differences in weight may not be a big deal.

[riderr]

I like Hornady critical duty.

It's designed to go throw the barrier (like windshield glass) and yet be powerful enough to penetrate and expand. So, in a regular home-defense scenario it can over-penetrate a little.

[That1Guy1988]

Like I said, I'm not saying it doesn't work. I just prefer to use something that I know has a documented history of effectiveness in the real world, not just testing. The HST's, Gold Dots, Ranger, PDX1, Golden Saber etc... have real world documentation going for them.

The other factor you have to think about is bullet weight. Standard bullet weights for .40 are 165gr and 180gr. I prefer to practice with rounds that are the same weight as my defensive rounds. A substantially lighter bullet may shoot differently than the standard weights that you practice with. That being said, you should practice with your defensive loads on a regular basis, so if you shoot enough of them, the differences in weight may not be a big deal.

I pointed that out to the gun shop. I always see 165 or 180gr and thats also what i bought to practice, but then they recommend this 105gr stuff and say its better than everything else. I told them I was a little skeptical because of how light the bullets are and they just looked at me like I was stupid and I had ***** on my face. So I said "hey you guys have way more knowledge that I do so ill take your word on it" So i bought a box. But i think I will go get some Hornady Critical defense for home defense and work duty. Thank you for the knowledge and insight. Greatly appreciated

[BigPimping]

I've been a paramedic for 23 years. In that time I've never seen anything do the amount of damage as Glaser Safety Slugs do. They are however, very expensive. Corbin Powerball seems to be pretty destructive to flesh as well.

[Trenchfoot]

I've been a paramedic for 23 years. In that time I've never seen anything do the amount of damage as Glaser Safety Slugs do. They are however, very expensive. Corbin Powerball seems to be pretty destructive to flesh as well.

I think frangible ammo has a place in the arsenal, the right tool for the right job thing. Perhaps some of our more learned ballistics experts can chime in. My concern is not if the round will do the job when things go right, like an unobstructed center mass shot, but if it will do the job if it has to go through a hand or an arm first. Will it retain enough energy and weight to penetrate to the vitals?

[BigPimping]

^^^^^^^^^^
Good point...maybe a ballistic expert will chime in.

[WWDHD?]

I've read that Remington Golden Saber ammo is (or was) considered one of the most reliable feeding HP ammo for pistols (in general) so that's what I tend to buy. 9mm, 124gr. Can't know for sure of course but I'll buy into the reputation and call it good enough. Hope I never need it for what it's really meant for.

[Eljay]

^^^^^^^^^^
Good point...maybe a ballistic expert will chime in.

I don't know about expert, but the conventional wisdom is definitely that while frangible ammunition can create some impressive looking wounds, that's not really the goal. The goal is to stop a threat. And to stop a threat you need to hit something vital. Vital stuff is usually fairly well protected, and as noted above it's very common for a round to hit somebody's hands / arms. So the FBI protocols call for quite a bit of penetration even after passing through heavy clothing (usually simulated by some layers of denim).

You'll actually notice when you look at results in ballistic gel that 9mm, .40, .45 at this point they're all engineered to come to rest at about the same depth - just a question of how big the hole is. If a round has some extra energy they just have it open a bit wider or earlier so that it comes to rest at about the desired point. The state of the art's really pretty impressive.

Basically any of the popular stuff will work about the same - Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger, whatever. Just get some mainstream defensive ammunition and test the snot out of it. Some guns get iffy with large hollowpoint cavities hanging up while chambering and you really want to find that out at the range and not when it counts.

[riderr]

I don't know about expert, but the conventional wisdom is definitely that while frangible ammunition can create some impressive looking wounds, that's not really the goal.

No over-penetration, lesser chance to hit a bystander, shoot through the wall, etc. While it's not the primary criteria, yet it's very important