AR pistols

[kentactic]

Does an AR with just the buffer tube(no stock) and a short barrel with a bullet button need to be registered as a handgun? Do all handgun restrictions apply for example no forward vertical grip etc?

[kentactic]

........

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Well, how did you get it? If you made it from an 80% lower, there is no requirement to register it. Any other route, and you would have had to register it when you bought it.

-Mb

[slunk0844]

and you cannot convert a AR15 into an AR pistol once it has been built as a rifle

[kentactic]

It isn't mine directly. The story for this person goes like this. A guy living in AZ buys it, brings it to CA with a bullet button installed when he moves here. He then sells it to this individual.

I'm thinking he needs to register it as a handgun when he moved to CA. Then do a PPT as a handgun to the new buyer.

Btw its a 9mm if that matters at all (I don't think it does).

[kentactic]

and you cannot convert a AR15 into an AR pistol once it has been built as a rifle

I believe it was born a 9mm pistol. Cant be certain. I think this guy bought it new as is.

[Ed_Hazard]

It isn't mine directly. The story for this person goes like this. A guy living in AZ buys it, brings it to CA with a bullet button installed when he moves here. He then sells it to this individual.

I'm thinking he needs to register it as a handgun when he moved to CA. Then do a PPT as a handgun to the new buyer.

Btw its a 9mm if that matters at all (I don't think it does).

This is what will cause problems. If he sold it to him as cash and carry, then that was not properly done, would have needed to be done via FFL transfer, and the question would be moot.

Does the seller reside in Ca.? If it is the case that no FFL was used, not judgeing just saying mistakes happen, it would be worth the hassle to have them meet up again and do a proper transfer.

[kentactic]

This is what will cause problems. If he sold it to him as cash and carry, then that was not properly done, would have needed to be done via FFL transfer, and the question would never arise.

Trying to do a vol registration might prove tricky as to proving the lower was all ways a pistol lower, and nt a converted rifle lower.

So first the origonal owner needs to register it and then do a transfer to the buyer? Were talking handgun transfer correct?

[kentactic]

Also let me add that supposidly this gun has no serial number

[kentactic]

This is what will cause problems. If he sold it to him as cash and carry, then that was not properly done, would have needed to be done via FFL transfer, and the question would be moot.

Does the seller reside in Ca.? If it is the case that no FFL was used, not judgeing just saying mistakes happen, it would be worth the hassle to have them meet up again and do a proper transfer.

Right I believe this guy lived in AZ and later moved to CA.

I really don't know all the facts I'm just curious if this gun needs to be registered as a handgun. I realize the circumstances dictate the laws so I'm trying my best to give them.

Using a phone is very frustrating...lol

[Ed_Hazard]

No need for the seller to register the gun here in Ca. before he sale. As long as it occurs within 60 days of him having moved here. All he needs is a valid Ca. ID. to do the PPT. A PPT via FFL must be done, unlike Az. no Cash and Carry of handguns between private parties in Ca.

Some FFL's are a little skittish when it comes to transferring AR pistols and may ask for him to provide original paperwork proving it has all ways been a pistol. Call around and find an FFL that fits your need.

[kentactic]

No need for the seller to register the gun here in Ca. before he sale. As long as it occurs within 60 days of him having moved here. All he needs is a valid Ca. ID. to do the PPT. A PPT via FFL must be done, unlike Az. no Cash and Carry of handguns between private parties in Ca.

Some FFL's are a little skittish when it comes to transferring AR pistols and may ask for him to provide original paperwork proving it has all ways been a pistol. Call around and find an FFL that fits your need.

So when the FFL transfer takes place are they registering it as a handgun or just processing it as a long gun?

[kentactic]

One thing I need confirmed is it is or is not considered a "handgun". Barrel is under 16" and there's no stock. It can't be a long gun with a short barrel right?

[Ed_Hazard]

So when the FFL transfer takes place are they registering it as a handgun or just processing it as a long gun?

Well when the FFL fills in the DROS,, if it is a pistol, it will be registered as a handgun. Long guns are not registered in Ca. until next year. It can only be transfered as a pistol if it is currently registered/manufactured as a pistol. It can at no time have been a rifle and then converted to pistol.

One thing I need confirmed is it is or is not considered a "handgun". Barrel is under 16" and there's no stock. It can't be a long gun with a short barrel right?

If it is not registered as a pistol, but is built on a rifle lower, then your in SBR territory which is coverd by the NFA and will be a whole new can of worms. SBR are illegal in Ca. unless you posses the proper federal tax stamp and permits.

What it comes down to, regardless of stock, barrel length and such is the lower receiver. In what way was it registered when it first hit the books, long gun or pistol? The answer to that question will determine how to proceed.

[kentactic]

Well when the FFL fills in the DROS,, if it is a pistol, it will be registered as a handgun. Long guns are not registered in Ca. until next year. It can only be transfered as a pistol if it is currently registered/manufactured as a pistol. It can at no time have been a rifle and then converted to pistol.



What it comes down to, regardless of stock, barrel length and such is the lower receiver. In what way was it registered when it first hit the books, long gun or pistol? The answer to that question will determine how to proceed.

So assuming it was born a handgun in AZ where there isn't registration. You can take this "handgun" with its short barrel, slap a collapsable stock on it a legally have an SBR?

What I honestly get from all of this is the reminder that trying to learn CA laws isn't worth it. I rock a shotgun for this reason because I refuse to buy a $1000 AR and put a bullet button on it making it less effective then a ruger 10/22.

CA is hillarious.