M&P - Optics/Mini Red Dots

[penguinofsleep]

So I finally decided on an M&P over the XD/XDm. In particular, scored a good deal on an M&P40 CORE (optics ready one).

Does anyone have any feedback with their M&Ps and red dots?

EDIT: thread revival. how's everything holding up for everyone. (see post #26)

[penguinofsleep]

I'm looking at the following right now. Here are my current thoughts if anyone needs more info for better feedback:
- Insight MRDS (division of L3 which also owns EOTech) - Haven't looked through these and haven't found much info on these online, including at brianenos.com. What little I did find were people's initial evals for a few hundred rounds only and they were all good except for people not being able to turn these on easily when mounted on M&Ps and no co-witness of the (suppressor height) sights. Also has anyone ever needed service from Insight or L3 before (if sight has issues/breaks)?

- Trijicon RMR (probably the RMR 02, 7MOA auto-adjust only version) - Have looked through several of these before and they seem like a solid option. However, I've read many reliable reports (i.e. not just a random guy on the internet, but professionals, etc.) of the sight failing (huge POA shift or flat out dying) after less than 2k rounds, mostly <1k, albeit with easy, immediate, and free replacement by Trijicon. That and the viewing area is somewhat smaller with the frame taking up significantly more viewing area.

- CMore STS or RTS - No experience with these, but seeing as how pretty much every CMore is very popular with the game gun community, I figure they must be on to something. Only concern is to doesn't look that physically robust. Also need feedback on CMore support.

Open to other sights not listed above, but have currently omitted the ones below:
- Leupold Deltapoint - looked through them a few different times, didn't like them that much. Also lots of internet hearsay about how interface and adjustment system don't work well on M&P, both CORE and custom jobs.
- Docter sight - I use and like these, but they seem somewhat fragile for a pistol like this.
- JPOINT (JP Ent) - No experience, but all general consensus I've heard about these is they aren't suitable for serious use firearms as a primary optic, mostly game guns or as backup optics. Great support from JP if anything does go wrong though (hearsay, I haven't had a single problem with any of my JP products).
- Burris FastFire - Minimal experience, but I wouldn't feel comfortable using one as a primary optic on something other than a game or range only gun from what experience I did have.

[LBDamned]

I just ordered the Burris Fastfire mount for M&P (I have a Fastfire III sitting around)...

I haven't received it yet - but I like the low profile of the mount compared to several others I've seen...

This is not my primary (or even secondary) gun... just one of a few for fun guns - so I don't have concerns of the Fastfire not being up to task... I'm anxious to use it though.

BTW, Botach has several Eotech (Insight) MRD and Trijicon RMR on sale: http://www.botachtactical.com/eohosisp.html plus an additional 10% off with code "10OFF" (I think code ends tonight)... if I didn't already have a FF that doesn't get used, I get one of the Eotechs...

[G21Shooter]

The Trijicon RMR is really the only way to go for a MRD pistol.

Has the reliability and durability needed for the job.

[jpm804]

Similar situation as you and decided to try the RMR first, since that is what gets recommended most. I went with the Dual illuminated version first since I liked the idea of not having to change out the battery's.

I'll probably try the led or adjustable model next to compare. I went with the 7 Moa dot and was worried it might be too big but after getting it, it's a nice size for the application of being mounted on a pistol.

I might try other brands later but thought I would give trijicon first try...Haven't shot it yet since I just got it but hope to test it out soon..

[penguinofsleep]

LB - thanks for the notice... hopefully it stays on for a few more days. only hesitation is that trijicon has stated that botach is not an authorized dealer of their products and will not warranty anything purchased from there... and given the supposedly high rate of failure with the rmr right now...

[Matt P]

I have 3 of the Delta points on (2) 1911s slide melted by Mark Housel, (1) Glock with Leupold mounting system. All of mine are 3 moa size.
I would not even consider a bigger moa dot for me. The accuracy potential of a mini holo on your handgun is almost beyond words. The level of accuracy that can be obtained is just incredible. Not just me, but I have had students shoot with my holo equipped guns. Lets just say it makes my demos look way less impressive when they can also obtain an amazing level of accuracy with little exposure to this system.
I have some of the Burris fastfire, but do not like the very high mounting of these. Running one on another Glock.
This technology is expanding. more and more will be offered. The CORE line is impressive to see S&W embracing what will be made available on many other models.
I will say I had a failure on my Delta when exposed to a day of putting on training in the rain. Back up irons would have helped in this setting. The screen did become occluded, and not easy to clean due to its size. Maybe Rain X might have made a difference.
Sent back to Leupold and fixed.
I am looking hard at the Trijicon RMRs. The switchable one with brightness control. Not cheap as my price just under $450.
Deltas at $300.
Burris are a value at cost of under $200.
I LOVE this sighting enhancement. I encourage clients to embrace this technology more so if they are having issues aligning opens.
Holos are one point of aim. Easy and accurate.
Voight will say spend a year behind a holo, and this will help you become a better open sight shooter.... I am a believer.
Been running them for over 2 years now. No mods to my holsters.

I will say the Insight model seems to be very popular with a group of guys that protect our freedoms in crazy dangerous places. At least it was in use and popular due to its robustness as of summer last year.

[redcliff]

I have 3 of the Delta points on (2) 1911s slide melted by Mark Housel, (1) Glock with Leupold mounting system. All of mine are 3 moa size.
I would not even consider a bigger moa dot for me. The accuracy potential of a mini holo on your handgun is almost beyond words. The level of accuracy that can be obtained is just incredible. Not just me, but I have had students shoot with my holo equipped guns. Lets just say it makes my demos look way less impressive when they can also obtain an amazing level of accuracy with little exposure to this system.
I have some of the Burris fastfire, but do not like the very high mounting of these. Running one on another Glock.
This technology is expanding. more and more will be offered. The CORE line is impressive to see S&W embracing what will be made available on many other models.
I will say I had a failure on my Delta when exposed to a day of putting on training in the rain. Back up irons would have helped in this setting. The screen did become occluded, and not easy to clean due to its size. Maybe Rain X might have made a difference.
Sent back to Leupold and fixed.
I am looking hard at the Trijicon RMRs. The switchable one with brightness control. Not cheap as my price just under $450.
Deltas at $300.
Burris are a value at cost of under $200.
I LOVE this sighting enhancement. I encourage clients to embrace this technology more so if they are having issues aligning opens.
Holos are one point of aim. Easy and accurate.
Voight will say spend a year behind a holo, and this will help you become a better open sight shooter.... I am a believer.
Been running them for over 2 years now. No mods to my holsters.

I will say the Insight model seems to be very popular with a group of guys that protect our freedoms in crazy dangerous places. At least it was in use and popular due to its robustness as of summer last year.

Nice post, thanks for the info. I first started playing with red dots on pistols back in the late 90's utilizing an Optima 2000 with a custom mount on an HP GP Competition. I'd like to try a more modern set-up now days as my eyes get more and more tired so I'm following this thread closely.

Having never shot my primitive set-up in the rain I was surprised at the distortion you get from rain if used on a defensive type handgun:

[penguinofsleep]

the above distortion is other reason i was initially leaning towards an rmr before reading about some failure reports - from what i understand, it is internal and doesn't have the little diode (light source here) acting as a projector onto the glass screen - a very small projector that could easily e blocked or distorted by even small amounts of debris.

[LBDamned]

^^^ in response to the above two posts... The Burris Fastfire III has a plastic hood that slips over the top - it overhangs front & back... Possibly enough to help in rain although I think its designed more as a sunshade.

Im still waiting for my mount - will post pics with hood once I have it installed.

BTW Im not suggesting the Fastfire is the right choice - it might take a crap after first outing... Im anxious to see how it holds up.

[LBDamned]

^^^ in response to the above two posts... The Burris Fastfire III has a plastic hood that slips over the top - it overhangs front & back... Possibly enough to help in rain although I think its designed more as a sunshade.

Im still waiting for my mount - will post pics with hood once I have it installed.

BTW Im not suggesting the Fastfire is the right choice - it might take a crap after first outing... Im anxious to see how it holds up.

update... I installed a month or so ago... haven't taken it to range yet...



with hood

[penguinofsleep]

curious as well. decided on the rmr for mine - but unfortunately it won't be anytime this year given the fact that registration starts next year (not that the gov probably doesn't already know every little thing about us but that's a different story). will also try the insight (eotech) mrds and cmore (not sure if i want to try the rts or sts yet) as well but later on. which ever one i choose, i'm 95% sure i will have other uses for the other ones so im not too worried about the money spent, just a matter of having enough money that i can safely buy this stuff.

have been happy just using sights though. i thought i didn't like suppressor height sights given my other experience with them, but these have worked well for me so far. mostly b/c i didn't realize that i just needed a narrower front with suppressor height... that and the m&p sights weren't milled nearly as crooked from the factory (cough tru glo cough) although based on my own experience AND that of ~5 others, my front sight is still slightly crooked. not sure if this is worth sending it to smith over.

[BSTS]

So I finally decided on an M&P over the XD/XDm. In particular, scored a good deal on an M&P40 CORE (optics ready one).

Does anyone have any feedback with their M&Ps and red dots?

Penguinofsleep,

I know this was a while ago, do you remember why you chose the M&P over the xD/xDM? Was it just because you scored the good deal on the M&P40 CORE? Or other reasons?

I've been looking at the main 3 polymer 9mms, and I like the ergos of the M&P better than the xD, but I'm concerned about all the criticism RE the trigger on the M&P.

[penguinofsleep]

one and only 1 reason: i shot the xd and m&p back to back again and shot the m&p better. and yes, the trigger on the m&p could use some work, but it wasn't great on the xd series either. kits or trigger jobs readily available for both at a somewhat reasonable cost.

[Whatisthis?]

I had a RMR 02 on my Glock 19. I loved it besides the fact that I had over $1200 in a Glock. I sold the slide for a minor loss and moved on. I'll probably get it again in a couple years when money isn't tight.

As for the sight, it was outstanding. I had mine milled in the slide, so the connection was better than a typical rear sight mount, but the first thing I did after receiving it was throw the slide on my Glock frame and ram the sight into my kitchen counter and table (racking the slide with a single hand still on the grip). The sight came out almost completely unharmed and the zero hadn't changed even slightly. And that is why I wanted an RMR over a Burris fastfire