"Ammo stored separately..."

[GuyW]

The reason I posted the PC is because that is what the officers will reference when they look up what is right and what is wrong. They won't have a book of relevant case law...

One officer posted here (and quoted IIRC) a LEO-commonly used book(let).

First, it would be instructive to know what that says on this topic (and others) because there apparently is a high liklyhood that the officer will consult it.

Secondly, it could be useful to have a copy in your possession, assuming it is one which is widely recognized by officers (even if they don't personally have one), assuming it is helpful....

[GuyW]

Then the book is stating what to do beyond the law, and doesn't mention what the law allows.

The governing PC for this situation is quoted above. Read it, it's not a hard section.

I think it's a great book, but it would be more useful to me (and I hypothesize, others) if their line of argument was contained in a footnote (where the text departed from strict and obvious interpretation of laws and cases) ...

[Xerxes]

Everyone is missing the point.

At the range the RO is GOD!

.......and you better get use to believing this if you want to be safe at the range.

Every range I ever went to had a "also what the RO deems as necessary for safety" clause in the rules. Many ranges actually have written rules stating no loaded magazines except when on the line.

So remember the RO is GOD and he makes the laws.

If you don't like them then you can do one of two things and that is to follow them anyways or leave.

Arguing with the RO is dangerous and endangers everyone's lives. You can go home and call the owner later to complain if you like.

As for loaded gun.
An Ar-7 that is broken down in the stock that is in a bag that is buried deep inside a back pack locked in a trunk is loaded if that little magazine that stores in the stock is loaded, I was cited for this by Eastbay regional park police. Fortunately it went away because the stupid idiot police man confiscated my little bottle of codeine cough syrup that had my name on it. He said it look like a forged bottle. Fortunately I had witnesses and my dad was my pharmacist and came with me and provided the prescriptions and all. It seems the codeine cough syrup was never booked in. Also what is weird is they took my Mace (back when you had to have a card-he said my card looked forged also) but did not take my AR-7 and did a cite an release. When I complained about my meds being stolen the DA said they would look into it and get back to me about the charges. I kept calling them for follow up on the charges like every week for several months, then every month for several months, and they would always respond they would get back with me. I logged every call and their response. I was told by the family lawyer that after a year I was safe as the DA never took a position (prosecute or drop charges) and apparently this is common when they drop charges that they just ignore you and don't put anything in writing unless compelled to do so in case they change their mind later and want to prosecute.

But the DA did explicitly state to me over and over that a loaded magazine in the stock of a broken down AR-7 is a loaded firearm because of the attached clause thingy. Since I was young and stupid I told him I was going to get a 45 auto and keep it on the seat with loaded magazines next to it as that was apparently legal and a lot faster than stopping my car, opening the trunk, pulling out the back pack, unloading the back pack and pulling out the bag, taking the AR7 out of the bag, assembling the AR7, then installing the magazine.

[yzErnie]

Nope, my mistake - read the post too quickly...

Your apology is accepted!!

[Full Clip]

The key words: "attached to the firearm."
Everything else is subjective.

[Librarian]

The key words: "attached to the firearm."
Everything else is subjective.

No, the key words are

Under the commonly understood meaning of the term "loaded," a firearm is "loaded" when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired; the shotgun is not "loaded" if the shell or cartridge is stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position.

but you need a lawyer to beat other lawyers upside the head with People v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99

[MudCamper]

All of the questions asked in the thread are already answered in Librarian's post What is Loaded. I recommed everyone read it.

[paul0660]

Librarian did a good job.

That does not mean you cannot be arrested by uninformed or badly trained law enforcement, or charged with the crime of carrying a loaded weapon by an uninformed or politically motivated prosecutor. It does mean that, if it goes to court and you have good representation, the prosecution should lose on the law.

Like I said before, I don't have time for any of that.

[Librarian]

Librarian did a good job.

Thanks.

Like I said before, I don't have time for any of that.

Not many of us do.

I think what I'm trying to do is get people to distinguish between what the law actually says, and what each of us might be comfortable doing, knowing what the law says.

But an individual comfort level, whether that of a gun owner or a police officer or a DA, does not determine what is legal. It's just that a mistaken LEO or DA can cause a lot of problems with, apparently, no cost to himself/herself.

Legal defense is expensive, in time and money and bits of your reputation, even if you win. So anyone might easily decide that even with the risk very low and the outcome almost certainly in one's favor, the annoyance of loading at the range instead of at home looks like a small cost.