1911 Reliability: Myths vs Facts

[CK_32]

So while its been asked and yet to be answered, CK, what 1911 do you own?

CK after reading this thread I gotta know, what 1911/s do you own?

What I find funny is...

You both have a similar join date....

Both have feminine SNs......

Both asked the same question in almost the same manner.......

And both have quite a few almost dupe posts in at least 3 to 5 of the same threads in around the same time frame...........


You both have quite a lot in common.....

[jakuda]

OK rant videos aside, a tight 1911 doesn't mean a unreliable and accurate pistol.

A PROPERLY fit 1911 will be reliable and accurate. It's not just about knowing the tolerances, it's an amalgam of small little things.

Despite all the yahoos who claim they are gunsmiths, there really are a small number of smiths out there who can actually do the job.

My minimum standard for an "accurate" 1911 is 3" at 50 yards, 10 shot group, from a ransom rest.

[Fishslayer]

I'm going to excuse my self out of this one I believe I got my $.02 in.

YOU LIE!!!

I don't make rant videos. And I have. Again on his word he challenged people to call him out on his forum. I signed up, posted a thread addressing the issues I had with his points. To where I was then banned from both his forum and YouTube channel.....


I know where I stand with certain things and what I believe to be true and false. If people want to lap up his BS that's fine and dandy with me. Doesn't effect me in anyway so why put any more effort into something that effects me. You guys and gals are big enough to make your own decisions on what you want to and dont want to go by.

So someone must own a 1911 to be competent of the platform. :facebook:

As a matter of fact yes I do own a 1911 since you asked. Note the 45ACP in my sig

Actually your incorrect sir. Because you own something does not automatically make you educated. That comment was just ignorant.


That being said I'm satisfied with this conversation.

Lmao the ignorance is strong with you.

I've yet to see you input a thing but questions. If your such a expert please feel free to teach us all about the 1911.

Ill grab my notepad. Begin when ever your ready.

You guys are cute when you get mad. Again I see a ton of posting but no expert information given on the 1911 platform. I'm not the one doing all the talking here I'm just replying to your ignorant posts.

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You figured you guys would be experts being owners of a CGN account. Being all that first hand experience you guys have. Well it was nice playing with you guys. Time for bed for me.

Actually I don't. Althought I don't mind a typical in house sales pitch knowing is just marketing. Where I have issues is guys that use smoke and mirrors as if its their own feelings and passions when its just paid for and a complete lie. Just stating the pros and only half the story to help yours is marketing. Again my issue is when people lie as if its their own feelings and opinions when it's not its what ever their pay check tells them to like or reccomend.


Edit: It also shows just how much their "word" is actually worth if they are willing to recommend something they are just using because there is money behind it vs someone just doing their 9 to 5 as a sales rep.




I'm only speaking off of his YT personality. I don't know him personally. I don't doubt it being the nicest people I've met on TV tended to be the biggest d**ks in person.. While the ones you figure are complete a holes seem to be the nicest once.

What I find funny is...

You both have a similar join date....

Both have feminine SNs......

Both asked the same question in almost the same manner.......

And both have quite a few almost dupe posts in at least 3 to 5 of the same threads in around the same time frame...........


You both have quite a lot in common.....

[CK_32]

I know they keep making me come back!


Ok this time I mean it I'm out haha

[Press Check]

Run 10,000 rounds through a 1911 and I highly doubt it will still be running. They are great when clean a lubed, but burn off that lube and replace it with black gunk and after 500-1000 rounds its a jam-o-matic. The parts inside are dainty and fragile so 10,000 rounds is a lifetime for a 1911. For a Glock, M&P, Sig, that is just a warm up.

Complete Myth, but a common misconception. From the same author:

http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Reliability%2C-Round-Counts%2C-and-Longevity-in-1911s.html

Also, remain mindful of the HRT Trials in which the Springfield Professional was required to shoot 20,000 consecutive rounds without a single malfunction.

The problem with 1911s is that there are so many different magazine makers, you have to rule out a bad magazine before diagnosing the gun. It could be that all your mags won't work with your gun.

Yep, the Achilles heal of the 1911. Well, one of two actually. In the case of the magazine, the variables include the spring tension, the angle in which the round is presented to the feed-ramp, and the length of magazine body, which affects the spring tension. A prime example of this would be the 47D. The reason that Wilson 47D springs fatigue prematurely is based on the fact that you have 8 rounds forced and squeezed into a 7-round magazine body. On the opposite end, their ETM magazines have a true 8-round body, as do Tripp Research magazines, which in my opinion, are the best magazines available.

I saw a program on Les Baers and the head shop guy said they are so tight they DO need a bit of time to wear in. Especially if you're trying to break em down So.....

Yes, those statements from manufacturers are contradictory of the linked article. On many occasions, I have read an instance of one or several malfunctions, which resulted in the manufacturer being contacted, and the manufacturer recommending that the customer simply continue shooting the pistol.

The tighter the fit, the better the potential for accuracy. The more accurate, the less potential for reliability.

Another Myth, and I am certain Les Baer, Ed Brown and Springfield's Custom Shop would strongly disagree.

Most new 1911s will run fine when standing still, slow shooting for accuracy and general plinking. The problems really start to show when aggressive firearm manipulation starts, speed reloads, shooting while moving and in odd angles. I own Kimbers and Springers that have all proven their reliability in aggressive shooting. Ammo also comes into play, especially if you are a reloader. In these times its not always easy to find your proven components. Forcing us to try new loads and specs. Crap mags are crap mags in a good gun or bad gun. Start with quality mags and stay with them.

I agree that shooting 200 rounds of ball ammunition on a static line hardly qualifies as a reliability test, but most 1911 owners seem satisfied with this. I load my own ammunition, and can honestly say that I have never shot a single round of ball ammunition from my pistol, and load Hornady XTP ammunition exclusively.

One of the problems with shooting factory ammunition, be it white box or premium, is that HP rounds tend to be shorter than ball rounds, so the HP round tends to nosedive, and generally strikes the feed-ramp at a lower angle, creating a malfunction, which most people equate to the flat shape of the HP nose.

Since you load, as we both know, the benefit in loading is the ability to control the OAL. Personally, I have found that a 1.250" OAL is perfect, and prevents nosediving.

Regarding aggressive manipulation, I have participated in numerous combined carbine / pistol courses, which entailed small-arms transition training, shooting from prone, urban prone, shooting over, under, around and through barriers, from concealment, etc. The point is, I have not experienced a single stoppage, and agree with your statement.

Instead of just trying to discredit him, why don't you address the arguments he makes in the video directly? I think they are pretty valid despite personal bias.

While I have never been a proponent of James Yeager, he made one extremely valid point, and I have acknowledged this before, which is the fact that 1911 pistols do not lend themselves to mass production.

Feed-ramp angles, extractor tension, the magazine height, spring tension, and angle in which the round is presented to the feed-ramp, among other variables, are all critical variables that will determine how reliable the pistol will be, and difficult to duplicate in a standard production setting.

He is also correct in his assertion that a production pistol is not suitable for carry, but failed to mention that any pistol, including a production or sub-production pistol, can in fact be serviced to perform just as reliably as a Springfield Professional.

The reason I used the Springfield Professional as an example is simply because it is in fact the benchmark of reliability, and based on the most extensive testing of a 1911 pistol, remains the standard against which all others are compared.

Onward, regarding the constant reference to Glocks, they simply require less maintenance than a 1911, and on a production level, yes, they are inherently more reliable than a 1911. To match a Glocks reliability out of the box, a fair comparison would have to be against a 1911 that is roughly 4-5 times the cost of a $500 Glock.

I own both, but remain completely partial to 1911's.

[Gutpile66]

I would rather throw my 1911 than shoot a glock.

Bah, hah, hah . . . just blasted water on my keyboard. Thanks.

Reminds me of the old Superman series I watched growing up in the 70's. Bad guy empties his pistol at Superman and all the bullets bounce off his chest. Then the bad buy throws the pistol and Superman dodges it.

Only 1911 I own is a Kimber, bought it at B&B for $600.00 on sale in the mid 90's. Never had a problem with it. But I still prefer to shoot my G21.

[INFAMOUS762X39]

Bah, hah, hah . . . just blasted water on my keyboard. Thanks.

Reminds me of the old Superman series I watched growing up in the 70's. Bad guy empties his pistol at Superman and all the bullets bounce off his chest. Then the bad buy throws the pistol and Superman dodges it.

Only 1911 I own is a Kimber, bought it at B&B for $600.00 on sale in the mid 90's. Never had a problem with it. But I still prefer to shoot my G21.

Here is one of my favorite scenes!

[cindynles]

Can't we all just get along?

Contrary to popular belief, Glocks and 1911s can co-exist in the same safe.

I shoot a Springfield Loaded in Single Stack and Glock 17 in Production and the world has not come to an end, yet..... and no that is not a malfunction in the Glock video, I was riding the slide stop with my thumb so the slide didn't lock back on the last shot.

[rogervzv]

.... Most 1911 failures during the so called 500 round "break-in" can be attributed to improper lube application, improper extractor tension, reloaded ammo or unreliable magazines. When the pistol starts getting looser/worn in there is enough left over recoil spring energy when returning the slide to battery that it can offset some of those deficiencies although they still exist.

Great post, Redcliff...

[tophatjones]

My 1911s are dead nuts reliable. Here are some reliability tips:

1) Extractor. If your extractor is MIM, toss it. They don't hold tension. If your extractor is tool steel (90% of modern ones are), check and adjust tension every 1k rounds. Tool steel holds tension better than MIM but isn't the best choice. Best thing to do is find a spring steel extractor (C&S has them); these hold their tension over many k rounds. Original spec called for spring steel.

If you always keep a round in the chamber, check extractor tension more often.

2) Feed ramp. Don't touch the feed ramp. It doesn't need to be mirror smooth. If you polish the ramp, you risk changing the angle of the ramp or rounding the ramp's top corner. Either one of these is much worse for reliability than a slightly rough ramp.

3) Magazines. If you are using RN bullets or bullets with similar ogive (like any modern JHP), use mags with tapered feed lips. The rear end of the cartridge will rise gradually with the taper, as originally designed. However, WC or SWC may need mags with parallel feed lips. Parallel feed lips generally release the round early (and abruptly). You gain the ability to shoot rounds with short OAL but lose the benefit of controlled round feed.

[GM4spd]

Nothing wrong with Glocks,I just wonder what they look like after 100 years!
And how well they work(with all their original parts)!

Pete

[timbo399]

I have only ever owned sub-1K priced 1911's from S&W and Springfield and they run fine with no modifications.

Same w me, SW and Springfield sub $1k 1911's only ones ever owned and I would bet my life on both, w FMJ or HP's.

[DuneShoot]

My 1911s are dead nuts reliable. Here are some reliability tips:

1) Extractor. If your extractor is MIM, toss it. They don't hold tension. If your extractor is tool steel (90% of modern ones are), check and adjust tension every 1k rounds. Tool steel holds tension better than MIM but isn't the best choice. Best thing to do is find a spring steel extractor (C&S has them); these hold their tension over many k rounds. Original spec called for spring steel.

How do you check tension?

[JESSCLOKES]

94 years old still runs like a champ

[missiontrails]

I don't want a gun that needs to be "properly treated" or adjusted or blah blah when it's new in order to run right. Forget that, I want to open the case, apply lube, and shoot it reliably NOW.

Excuses.