EAA Witness in 9mm? Thoughts?

[cjfung10]

[SilverTauron]

Any EAA/Tanfoglio Witness fans/owners out there? I was looking for CZ75s in 9mm but they’ve been pretty rare lately. I saw an EAA witness in 9mm on consignment for a price tag of 350.

I don’t know a whole lot about them other than they’re CZ clones and that they also have a large and small frame depending on when it was distributed – not sure which frame this one is. Other than that, would you care to shed any light on this handgun? Should I be looking for anything in particular when checking it out? Experiences? Worth it for the price or wait for who knows how long for a CZ?

Thanks guys,
Chris

I own a Witness Steel 10mm, 2012 model year. CZ doesn't make them in that caliber, so my choices were easier then yours.

That being said, the 9mm model is a great purchase.First, some background; back in the late 70's the CZ75 wasn't imported into America since it was made behind the Iron Curtain. Tanfoglio realized there was a market for the gun and set up shop in Italy making clones, which were the old TZ88-TA90s. Those guns weren't the best in quality, which is where the negative rep probably stems from in the States.

After the Wall fell CZs weren't embargoed anymore, so Tanfoglio changed the frame design and created what we know as the Witness. Some important differences between the Witness and the CZ are that one can carry the Witness hammer down and safety on, which isn't possible with the classic CZ75. The slide can also be manipulated with the safety engaged , which is a safety bonus.


The large frame models used to be sold alongside the "small frame" guns , but today EAA only imports the large frame models. One of the reasons the guns are so popular overseas is because one can order a "caliber kit" which just slides right onto the frame of your current gun. In Europe, gun permits are expensive and require intrusive government inspection of the owner, so that's an asset for a lot of folks. Because the caliber kits have the complete top end and magazine, all one need do is field strip the gun and slide the top end on, and off you go to the range. Since the top end isn't a serialized firearm, here you can call EAA and order a complete conversion kit and have it sent right to your doorstep-no FFL required!

Your 9mm will take a .40 S&W top end, but only the larger caliber 10mm/.45 ACP models can be converted "down" to all the calibers sold.

My new 10mm has been a reliable bird with factory ammo, as in not one failure yet in over 400 rounds of expensive high-speed 10mm.Stock recoil spring, stock barrel and frame. It had some trouble with out-of-spec range reloads , which I don't hold against the gun because those reloads weren't properly crimped.

While the CZ is a nice piece in its own right, a Witness should not be passed over if the opportunity arises. They're also quite hard to find- I can't order a steel frame model from my local dealer to save my life regardless of caliber. He just happened to get a 10mm in stock last month and I bought it on impulse knowing I probably won't see one grace his display window again for a LONG time.

The only trouble you might have with the Witness is finding a reliable 10-round California mag for it. The factory mags which came with my 10mm Witness haven't given me a problem, but they're standard capacity 14 rounders.

Here's the obligatory photo of my 10mm. These Witness pistols are quite beautiful, and made in Gardone Val-Trompia -just like Italian Berettas.

[cjfung10]

Thanks Silver, ton of great info. If I'm reading this right, the 9mm in question here can't accept larger calibers kits (45,10mm)? At some point, were EAA importing both small and large framed 9mm Witnesses?

What if this 9mm is a "large" framed model?

[trigger945]

Where is this for sale? I will snatch it up if you don't

I shot one and I have a CZ75B. They shoot about the same. But of course it is a clone. But for $350, it is a great price especially that it is not readily available in CA (off roster). Go get it OP!

I am in the hunt for EAA Witness Elite Match. Worth looking into as well OP!

[SilverTauron]

Thanks Silver, ton of great info. If I'm reading this right, the 9mm in question here can't accept larger calibers kits (45,10mm)? At some point, were EAA importing both small and large framed 9mm Witnesses?

What if this 9mm is a "large" framed model?

If the 9mm is a "large" frame model, it'll be identical to the .45/10mm in terms of size. There were importing both at one time, but now they only bring in the large frame models. If you're buying a new Witness, its a large frame design. To make matters more confusing, the smaller frame new build Witness pistols are still being imported by ARMSCOR-yup, the same boys and girls bringing us the Rock Island 1911s-as the MAP1. Without both guns side by side, you won't know which one is which.

Contact EAA with the serial # to verify which type of frame it is. Obviously you'll have more options with the large frame then you do the smaller one.

[zfields]

I sure as hell wouldn't kick a TZ out of bed. I think my next will be a large frame in 9/40.

Lots of aftermarket for them also, but sadly a lot of it has to be imported which raises the cost.

[cjfung10]

Long story short, it's a small frame that was made in 1995 (called EAA with the serial #). Gun needs a good cleaning but the finish on the exterior looked great for an 18 year old gun. It doesn't come with any mags either. I'll need to purchase some mags =\. I believe CZ75 mags fit the small frame EAA 9mm witness but big frame does not?

Where is this for sale? I will snatch it up if you don't

I shot one and I have a CZ75B. They shoot about the same. But of course it is a clone. But for $350, it is a great price especially that it is not readily available in CA (off roster). Go get it OP!

I am in the hunt for EAA Witness Elite Match. Worth looking into as well OP!

It's a shop down in SD. I put it on layaway as I debate. Figure I could get my money back? Maybe? haha

[Davinho]

I bought a full size 9mm steel frame Witness back in 2000 on the advice of the owner of the local shooting range who also rented handguns. He said that of all the guns he rented out, the Witness required the least maintenance and had the fewest issues, which surprised me considering he rented the usual assortment of Glocks, Sig-Sauers, etc. So I bought one. It never failed. Not once in several thousand rounds. Seriously under appreciated guns in my opinion.

One interesting design feature is that when in battery, the barrel is actually pointed slightly down relative to the slide. This requires the rear sights to be a bit higher than "normal", but it also means that when the slide moves to the rear and the barrel disengages, it ends up being perfectly aligned with the motion of the slide. It also means the effective feed ramp angle is slightly lower relative to the nose of the bullet being chambered. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but seems to work very well.

[trigger945]

I have EAA mags that I use for my CZ75B. I haven't done the opposite but it may work.

[railroader]

Witness mags are a hair longer than cz mags. Some cz mags will work though. If you want witness mags EAA sells 3 packs of 10 rounders for $75 which is cheaper than cz mags.

[cjfung10]

I have EAA mags that I use for my CZ75B. I haven't done the opposite but it may work.

Good to know, I figure I'll probably get a CZ75 at some point so this is a good thing if I get the EAA...

Witness mags are a hair longer than cz mags. Some cz mags will work though. If you want witness mags EAA sells 3 packs of 10 rounders for $75 which is cheaper than cz mags.

Thanks. Any idea if these are the "large" or "small" mags? Or does that even matter if I just tell them the serial they'll figure out which mags to send?

[trigger945]

Thanks. Any idea if these are the "large" or "small" mags? Or does that even matter if I just tell them the serial they'll figure out which mags to send?

Yep, just give EAA's CS a call they will help you. A buddy of mine who owns an EAA Witness Elite Match did this and his mags shipped immediately after the call for not too much. 3 for $75 sounds about right IIRC.

[TX-LadyShooter]

Has anyone tried a magwell on a EAA Witness Match? I just received a Match and it's fantastic - way more accurate than I am. I can't shoot USPSA in Production with it tho...has to be Limited or Ltd10 to be legal. So I'm hunting a magwell and extensions and Henning is the only place I've seen them so far. Found Mec-Gar mags for $25 on gregcotellc.com...had never heard of him before.

[railroader]

Has anyone tried a magwell on a EAA Witness Match? I just received a Match and it's fantastic - way more accurate than I am. I can't shoot USPSA in Production with it tho...has to be Limited or Ltd10 to be legal. So I'm hunting a magwell and extensions and Henning is the only place I've seen them so far. Found Mec-Gar mags for $25 on gregcotellc.com...had never heard of him before.

Can't help you on the magwell but gregcotellc.com is good to go. Fast shipping.

[MiddleKingdom]

I think I bought my FIE TZ-75 in '89 or '90 because I wanted an affordable wondernine. I couldn't afford a real CZ or the AT-84 (actually made by Tanfoglio). The TZ is super comfortable and is pretty darn accurate. I liked it so much that I bought the Witness in .40 and .45 when they were first released.