building a semi auto handgun

[ww321q]

Seem to me that any handgun built completely by an individual or from non firearm parts fits in the "zip gun" category. True or not ? thanks JW

[swifty]

Not true.

[ww321q]

Not true.

Care to elaborate a little?

"Not true" that post will be very helpful to others trying to learn so they don't end up in jail.

[morrcarr67]

If you build a handgun based off a gun that has already been built; say a 1911, it's not a zip gun.

If you take a bunch of stuff and come up with your own design and make a gun; that is a zip gun.

[Arkangel]

Follow an established design, use some actual gun parts and you should be good to go. Remember that any semi-auto handgun you build will have to go through the SSE process.

[swifty]

Care to elaborate a little?

"Not true" that post will be very helpful to others trying to learn so they don't end up in jail.

Not sure what you're wanting, you asked a very straight forward question and I gave you a very straight forward answer.

~~~

Though I suppose that the "correct" answer can only be given by you. Your question, "Seem to me... True or not ?", leads me to believe that you feel that "any handgun built completely by an individual or from non firearm parts fits in the "zip gun"category. I believe you, therefore the correct answer is "true".

~~~

Research the term "zip gun".
Semi-auto does not equal zip gun.
Zip gun does not equal semi-auto.
State law is not the same as Federal law.

[ww321q]

Sorry swifty. I posted the question to get more info . I was thinking of doing a conversion from non-firearm to firearm. Or also just building completely from scratch. I see no provision in the "zipgun" rule that allows one to build a "look a like" ether.

(A)It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(C)No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F
(D)It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

[morrcarr67]

Sorry swifty. I posted the question to get more info . I was thinking of doing a conversion from non-firearm to firearm. Or also just building completely from scratch. I see no provision in the "zipgun" rule that allows one to build a "look a like" ether.

(A)It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(C)No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F
(D)It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

Do you see it now?

[Quiet]

Also note that any handgun built in CA, needs to comply with CA's "unsafe handgun" laws. [PC 32000]



Penal Code 32000
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) The manufacture in this state, or importation into this state, of any prototype pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person when the manufacture or importation is for the sole purpose of allowing an independent laboratory certified by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 32010 to conduct an independent test to determine whether that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is prohibited by Sections 31900 to 32110, inclusive, and, if not, allowing the department to add the firearm to the roster of pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person that
may be sold in this state pursuant to Section 32015.
(2) The importation or lending of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by employees or authorized agents of entities determining whether the weapon is prohibited by this section.
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(4) The sale or purchase of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, if the pistol, revolver, or other firearm is sold to, or purchased by, the Department of Justice, any police department, any sheriff's official, any marshal's office, the Youth and Adult Correctional Agency, the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney's office, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the
discharge of their official duties. Nor shall anything in this section prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) Violations of subdivision (a) are cumulative with respect to each handgun and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and other provisions of law shall not be punished under more than one provision, but the penalty to be imposed shall be determined as set forth in Section 654.

[ke6guj]

Sorry swifty. I posted the question to get more info . I was thinking of doing a conversion from non-firearm to firearm. Or also just building completely from scratch. I see no provision in the "zipgun" rule that allows one to build a "look a like" ether.

(A)It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(C)No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F
(D)It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

remember that all 4 items must apply.

ATF recently changed the rules about tax payments and we are exempt from paying excise tax until we build more than 49 firearms in one year.

(c) Small manufacturers, etc.
(1) In general
The tax imposed by section 4181 shall not apply to any pistol, revolver, or firearm described in such section if manufactured, produced, or imported by a person who manufactures, produces, and imports less than an aggregate of 50 of such articles during the calendar year.

Since I am exempt from having to pay the tax as long as I build <50 firearms in one year, then (C) does not apply to me. As such, they would not be considered zip guns per CA law.

[ww321q]

Ke6guj I was thinking the tax thing may be a way out of the zipgun.
Quiet understanding that unsafe hand gun its going to take me awhile.

[morrcarr67]

Ke6guj I was thinking the tax thing may be a way out of the zipgun.
Quiet understanding that unsafe hand gun its going to take me awhile.

If you build a handgun in the state of CA it must be on the CA roster (list of NOT unsafe handguns) or it must be roster exempt (NOT CA tested and hence considered UNSAFE)

So, say you build an AR style pistol. You are NOT a manufacturer with a AR style pistol that is listed on the CA Not Unsafe Roster.

So you would need to build it in a roster exempt manner.

Per 12133PC, certain handguns are Roster-exempt. These include:

Single-action Revolvers, capable of holding 5 or more rounds, with 37overall length when assembled.

Single-shot Pistols,
(lengths measured parallel to bore)

revolvers

To build an AR style pistol in CA exempt fashion you would start with a block of aluminum or most people prefer to buy what's known as an 80% lower. Most of the work has been down for you, you just need to do the finishing of it. Finish the lower and install all of the lower's parts; ie trigger, safety, hammer, etc. Install a magazine lock. Insert a magwell block or a zero round magazine. Attach a less than 16" barreled upper.

You have now just built a CA exempt single shot pistol.

[ww321q]

So, say you build an AR style pistol. You are NOT a manufacturer with a AR style pistol that is listed on the CA Not Unsafe Roster.

That was what I was thinking about in a "look a like" build. You have to be a manufacturer that is listed . That doesn't include one that I built that "looks like" one on the list.

So the only handgun you can build is through the Roster-exemption

No semi autos!

[morrcarr67]

That was what I was thinking about in a "look a like" build. You have to be a manufacturer that is listed . That doesn't include one that I built that "looks like" one on the list.

So the only handgun you can build is through the Roster-exemption

No semi autos!

Correct. It has to be built as a Single Shot.

It does not have to stay as a single shot.