-CA RAW- need advice!

[RailroadGunner]

I have a SWD Inc. M12 .380 i got back in 1998

When the assault weapons ban went into effect i registered it with the CA DOJ. Now I'm thinking of selling it and after some internet research i discovered that the SWD Inc. M12 .380 is NOT banned by name, just characteristics. The SWD M10 and M11 models are banned by name. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Is it possible that if i remove the threads on the muzzle (cap them somehow) under the current laws i could remove it from the CA RAW list and sell the firearm in California as it would no longer be considered an assault weapon?

Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the fol-
lowing:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer
.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds

[DBADRAT]

Good luck, but I think you are screwed IMHO. Don't know how you would get it delisted.

[bwiese]

There may well be solutions. I will post a reply in a hour or so w/details.

I want to really confirm this is truly off-list and we can go from there.

Ignore incompetents like DBADRAT above who doesn't know WTF he is talking about
and shouldn't have spoken up due to that.

[morrcarr67]

I have a SWD Inc. M12 .380 i got back in 1998

When the assault weapons ban went into effect i registered it with the CA DOJ. Now I'm thinking of selling it and after some internet research i discovered that the SWD Inc. M12 .380 is NOT banned by name, just characteristics. The SWD M10 and M11 models are banned by name. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Is it possible that if i remove the threads on the muzzle (cap them somehow) under the current laws i could remove it from the CA RAW list and sell the firearm in California as it would no longer be considered an assault weapon?

Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the fol-
lowing:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer
.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds

YES, get a new barrel or cap the current one. You will then need to get it unregistered as an AW and you would then be able to sell it to someone in CA.


EDIT:

I just saw Bills post. Don't listen to me either. Wait until Bill get's back.

[Ed_Hazard]

There may well be solutions. I will post a reply in a hour or so w/details.

I want to really confirm this is truly off-list and we can go from there.

Ignore incompetents like DBADRAT above who doesn't know WTF he is talking about
and shouldn't have spoken up due to that.

[bwiese]

RailroadGunner...

• Your SWD M12 pistol is indeed 'off-list' and isn't a Roberti-Roos- banned banned gun. [It can't
  be a Kasler-banned gun since it's clearly in no way an AR/AK 'series' member and of course isn't
  listed as such in that list.]
  
  The closest thing is an "SWD Incorporated M-11", which your gun is simply not. (Note that this
  Kasler-listed entity is listed both as rifle & pistol.)
  
  I assume the info you reported to me is indeed correct. I would hope your gun is specifically marked
  as such ("M12") for clarity - I'd think it would be.
  .
• Your gun is thus an SB23 "Category 3" assault weapon as defined by configured features suite. The
  only offending feature I see here is "pistol with threaded barrel."
  
  Replacing such a barrel with a a barrel that has no threading, or by welding a cap on the threads,
  removes that 'evil feature'.
  .
• You can file for de-registration with Calif DOJ (send a registered, notarized letter to their Registration
  & Permits unit - call/see website beforehand to get the right address etc.)
  
  Explain that ...
  
  (1) you wantto de-register your gun as a reg'd AW, and
  
  (2) that your gun is not banned by make/model on the Roberti-Roos lists (old: 12276(a) PC; new:
  30510(a) PC, or their regulatory echo in 11 CCR 5495), nor is it on the Kasler list (11 CCR 5499).
  
  Also, state that the gun no longer has an SB23 configured features suite and therefore is not
  described by SB23 (old PC: 12276.1(a)(4); new PC 30515(a)(4)).
  
  (3) the firearm as it stands at time of writing is already configured to not be an AW.
  .
• Understand that there is a small but nonzero chance DOJ will (it has in past) request
  "verification" of modification into non-AW status before proceeding with deregistration.
  
  You should request to bring the gun by a DOJ office if you can.
  
  This means there is some chance agent(s) may show up at your residence requesting to
  see the gun and which involves risk of LE contact at your home - possibly unscheduled.
  
  Understand that bringing LE into your life is risky - your life should be 100% squared away
  - no pot plants, questionable guns, smog-illegal cars, etc. - and you should not let them
  in your home.
  
  If you have weird roommates/family you may have extended drama.
  
  At worst meet in scrubbed garage with door to house locked, fenced backyard with door
  to house locked, etc. Feel free to dismiss them and not complete this 'transaction' if you
  feel at unease.
  
  Having an observant, literate witness with you with a clean unimpeachable background
  can help. [There is a reason cops come in pairs: one backs the others' testimony, often
  against a sole 'opposing' person.]
  
  Do NOT consent to anything. DOJ agents in past have gotten aggressive at the door and
  pushed their way in with meek, nervous householders unsure of their rights, esp of Asian
  descent (due to "culture of compliance/nonresistance").
  
  You should NOT answer questions about anything else except gun status that is the only
  subject for this interaction, and refer such questions to attorneys.
  
  It is your choice, and easily an unwise one, whether or not you want to let political law
  enforcement in your life to try to get a few hundred bucks for a cheap gun - sorry, this
  ain't a Python, an HK, etc.
  .
• Remember your M12 is a Category 3 reg'd AW.
  
  THIS MEANS IT IS NOT AN AW WHEN PROPERLY CONFIGURED! (i.e., no threaded bbl
  installed) - even though registered as such.
  
  For off-list firearms, the AW registration merely *allows* the firearm to be in AW
  configuration; the actual status as an AW is actuallly due to the configured features
  suite at time of examination.
  
  This means you can - with a nonthreaded bbl - still keep your gun as a reg'd AW but treat it
  as a non-AW for transport etc. You should de-register it as an AW if (and before) you sell it
  within CA due to red lights likely coming up on DROS, and/or drama for your buyer or FFL.
  
  If you sell this gun to or thru (mandatory) an FFL outside California you must either...
  
  (1) ship the gun as-is thru the expen$ive services of a CA FFL w/CA AW permit to the FFL;
  
  (2) drive with/fly with the unmodified CA AW to a point outside of CA and ship to FFL from
  there;
  
  (3) modify the gun to be a non CA-AW by installing an unthreaded bbl and then ship directly
  to the non-CA FFL;
  
  If you do #2 or #3 above you do not have to worry about deregistering. No harm will really
  come to you for having "old registration data" - the DOJ database is so full of errors anyway
  this won't matter, and why help the mofos be accurate?
  .
  .
• Gawd kills a kitten everytime someone deregisters a California AW.
  
  We need to keep that database well-populated and not let it shirnk to "small potatoes". The
  ~140,000 guns/people on there is a big enough number to have constitutional significance.

[Librarian]

That post gets a wiki link.

Thanks, Bill.

[Lead Waster]

After reading Bills post, my suggestion would be ... "sheesh, just keep it!, I'd pay money NOT to have that kind of hassle!"

I'd add to his suggestions (as a non-lawyer) to have a video camera running during any interaction with any agents. I'm guessing (as a non law-talker) that if you're talking to them on your property, you can videotape whatever the heck you want?

[Lifeon2whls]

[*]Gawd kills a kitten everytime someone deregisters a California AW.

We need to keep that database well-populated and not let it shirnk to "small potatoes". The
~140,000 guns/people on there is a big enough number to have constitutional significance.

+1 on this.

Awesome post Bill.