Cominolli Thumb Safety For Glock?

[Spent Shell]

I did a search and came up with nothing.

Does anyone here have experience with this? If you're not familiar check out www.cominolli.com and look at the Glock safety kit.

Now PLEASE before some of you ask "why?" I'm familiar with the pros and cons of the Glocks safe action trigger and have read all the debate threads on the subject, and lets just say I'm interested in this modification.

Seems a number of police agencies are using this, and so far I haven't read anything bad about it. I'm always a bit leary of major modifications on a gun that I may have to depend on with my life as opposed to a target gun or project toy.

My other question is would there be any possibility of legal trouble making a mod such as this in CA since it wouldn't be drop tested in this configuration. Of course it would pass a drop test as all the original safeties are there PLUS one, but would I be technically breaking a rule? I don't need that kind of trouble and wouldn't want to give the powers that be a lame excuse to make me a criminal. That alone would be a decieding factor.

[Librarian]

would I be technically breaking a rule?

Nope - presuming you don't break some other law, such as manufacturing an 'assault weapon', you're free to modify your weapon after purchase. The list applies only to sales made by FFLs. A cautious FFL dealer might not buy it from you, used, because there might (will?) be some question whether the dealer could resell it in CA.

[MaceWindu]

I have always found that keeping your finger off the trigger, is the best safety.

Mace

[Spent Shell]

I have always found that keeping your finger off the trigger, is the best safety.

Mace

Oh man, I just knew someone would have to say it

Thanks, you are correct and I know that, I also wear a seat belt when I drive in case I make a mistake, even though it's never been needed. PLEASE I'm looking for a review on the mechanical aspect here.

Librarian- thanks for the legal review that clears one hurdle for me.

[Sgt Raven]

[MaceWindu]

"Also I have read enough cases of someone carrying a Glock in an IWB holster and have an ND due to something entering the trigger guard while holstering the pistol."

Poor holster design.


"I personally know one person who shot themselves because part of their shirt..."

When CCW'ing, you have to not only consider the holster design, but ATTIRE also. Most people forget that part...

Mace

[m1371]

I have one on my CCW G23. My reason is if it ever is taken away from me the time the person is messing with it, is extra time I have to correct the situation. Also I have read enough cases of someone carrying a Glock in an IWB holster and have an ND due to something entering the trigger guard while holstering the pistol. I personally know one person who shot themselves because part of their shirt tripped the trigger on a Glock while holstering it.

I'd chalk that up to several factors. One, like Mace pointed out, is taking into consideration your attire and method of carry. Getting into a hurry and just jamming the pistol into the holster without paying any attention is what I can see (and have seen) happening to cause an ND.

Would also like to know which school this is you are referring to.

There's a difference between:
- requiring people attending a shooting course to have a safely functioning firearm

and

- requiring them to have certain additional modifications to their firearm before they can attend

If any school is going to require me to mod my firearm a certain "extra safe" way just so I can go shoot with them, that school isn't getting my $$$. That's just me. I cannot think of any shooting course I've been to or that acquaintances have been to which would require that. Strikes me as being a bit asinine.

[choochboost]

Seems a number of police agencies are using this

Which ones?

[Sgt Raven]

I'd chalk that up to several factors. One, like Mace pointed out, is taking into consideration your attire and method of carry. Getting into a hurry and just jamming the pistol into the holster without paying any attention is what I can see (and have seen) happening to cause an ND.

Would also like to know which school this is you are referring to.

There's a difference between:
- requiring people attending a shooting course to have a safely functioning firearm

and

- requiring them to have certain modifications to their firearm before they can attend

If any school is going to require me to mod my firearm a certain "extra safe" way just so I can go shoot with them, that school isn't getting my $$$. That's just me. I cannot think of any shooting course I've been to or that acquaintances have been to which would require that. Strikes me as being a bit asinine.

[Spent Shell]

Which ones?

I'm not sure. How's that for honesty?

Really, I went back and re-read an article linked on his website which is of course full of statistics on negligent use of Glocks by law enforcement resulting in accidental discharge (he does make it clear the Glocks don't malfunction, its user error) In the same article it says the safety device is MARKETED to police agencies, which I realize is not neccesarily the same as sold.

So no, I don't know if any police agencies actually use it, that was the impression I got from scanning the article quickly. Had that been a decieding factor I'd probably have looked for more details, which its not, so I didn't.

BTW guys, I'm not knockin those of you who like your Glocks the way they are, I realize for many it's a pretty black and white, one way or the other, issue but I think there's room for both. Over at Glock Talk they have reported manual safeties from the factory for at least one foriegn agency, and Glock has stated they will honor thier warranty (posted on Cominellis site) on guns with the Cominelli safety installed, so it seems even the manufacture is open to the idea.

For me this is the only issue I have with Glocks, and I'll say it is a personal thing,it doesn't bother me a bit if you feel different. So if I can fix the one issue I have with a gun I otherwise love, and there are mechanically no drawbacks, why not? And that's what I'm REALLY trying to learn here, is if anyone can give me an example of when this system has failed or had a problem. I realize adding any mechanical device adds a possibility of somthing else to fail, like any other part on a gun. So is this a good, trustworthy part? So far I've read manufacturers claims and product testing reviews which were favorable but I have yet to see unbiased long term reviews....that's why I came to you guys

[MaceWindu]

The mag-safety is long goooooone.... I safety, then holster. But, my finger is ALWAYS off the trigger unless I am on target and ready to fire.

Sgt Raven, as you know I do a GREAT DEAL of TRAINING. With my 1911's, unlike most shooters, my safety is clicked off as I clear leather (or Kydex) not when I am on target, so when I am on target I just drop the hammer. This is unconventional, but I never touch the trigger unless I am firing. No threat, I thumb the safety back on, then reholster.

I treat my Glocks the same. Finger NEVER touches the trigger unless I am firing, thumb saftey or not. Be aware of your attire, and TRAIN.

Mace

[MaceWindu]

I went back and re-read an article linked on his website which is of course full of statistics on negligent use of Glocks by law enforcement resulting in accidental discharge

P-O-O-R T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G...I am pro police, but they are the worst when it comes to training with their tools of the trade (specifically guns).

Overall, gun owners, people on the forum, and others do not train with their firearms. I am not saying that everyone has to be an uber-ninja, but learning how to operate your gun under duress is VERY important. Why/ If you ever have to pull it for self defense or defense of others, you will be under duress. That point is hard to argue against.

Spend less money on cool guns and more on training and ammo.

Mace

[m1371]

In your post you stated:
That sounds to me like a requirement to mod the firearm. Unless you misspoke.....

I disagree with your distinction between attending a class and carrying IWB daily. If a class is running too fast for you to safely holster your weapon after the completion of a string of fire then it's running too fast period.

Safety has always come first in every course I've attended, military and civilian.

Despite performing hundreds of presentations (and re-holstering) with a loaded handgun, you should be safer than drawing/reholstering once in a "day-to-day" ccw situation.

I'm having trouble trying to articulate this, so bear with me.....

In a 3/4/5 day class you are conducting hundreds of presentations and re-holstering. The sheer number of these logically increases the odds of an ND occurring. But you are in a training environment, no matter how hard you are pushing the envelope, and can (should) call cease-fire in the event of an observed unsafe situation. You have the opportunity to continually check the condition of your gear, and you should. Besides yourself, there are other shooters around who are also responsible for safety. There are the instructor(s) and/or rangemaster(s) who are responsible for the overall safe conduct of the course. All of this should minimize the possibility of an ND taking place, but we all know that Murphy lurks everywhere we go.

From my days in the Corps, there was the phrase "Every Marine is responsible for safety and can call cease-fire should they observe what they feel to be any unsafe condition." This applied to everything we did, whether related to firearms, demolitions, maneuver training, etc etc etc.

Taking the view of a "day-to-day" ccw situation. If you are carrying ccw day-to-day, how often do you stop to check the condition of your weapon? Doing so carries the possibility of letting those around you know you are armed, when you do not want that to be known.

Even a patrol officer using say a level III retention holster, how often does he/she perform a check to ensure their weapon is secure and safe?

It's easy to get into that comfort zone with your attire and your handgun. Plenty of times I've seen guys I'm working with flashing their hardware unintentionally, simply because they're in that "zone" and not really aware of what they're doing. Carry every day for years and years and eventually you can forget the gun is even there, it becomes so natural.

Good example: Right now I'm without my Glock, which I normally carry IWB; I feel kinda naked without it, despite the fact I've got a full-auto m4 sitting next to me.

Now factor in a shoot/no-shoot situation where you are forced to draw your weapon . The "oh, ****" factor kicks in, especially if it turns into a two-way rifle range situation.

There is no cease-fire, there are no other shooters watching your back (and theirs), there are no range officials to catch you if you start to make a mistake. It's all on you.

You've maybe put rounds into someone, or come right to the edge of having to do so. Now you try to re-holster. Where's your situational awareness at? Is it on paying attention to the location of your shirttails relative to the path of your handgun as it tracks back towards your holster? Or is your situational awareness still focused on the potential threats which caused you to draw your firearm in the first place?

Granted, I've seen the 10%er @$$clowns on the range with zero awareness of what they're doing. And I've called people on safety-related issues, from sweeping the line to not decocking/safing and then trying to holster. But at least in a training environment there are multiple checks and balances to ensure the safe completion of the training. In a real-world scenario they tend to be noticeably absent.

That's my take on it, at least as well as I can put it.

[Spent Shell]

P-O-O-R T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G...I am pro police, but they are the worst when it comes to training with their tools of the trade (specifically guns).

Overall, gun owners, people on the forum, and others do not train with their firearms. I am not saying that everyone has to be an uber-ninja, but learning how to operate your gun under duress is VERY important. Why/ If you ever have to pull it for self defense or defense of others, you will be under duress. That point is hard to argue against.

Spend less money on cool guns and more on training and ammo.

Mace

Well Mace, once again I'll have to agree with you. I know plenty of LEOs that really enjoy guns and are good with them, but then I'm amazed at some I've seen at the range that are all over the target at 7 yards It does kind of blow the publics idea that these are all professionals with a gun.

No doubt proper training IS the best tool. I consider myself a good shot and am familiar with my guns,serious competition level, probably not. As we both pointed out I'd imagine I could qualify as an officer no problem judging by range performance I've witnessed

Unfortunately getting a ccw out here seems next to impossible. So daily carry is not an option for me , reptition builds familiarity (as with training). The only time I carry a loaded weapon is where I legally can. I spend a fair amount of time on BLM land and similiar where I may be camping by myself 50 miles away from the nearest paved road. This is about the only time I carry and I think the reason is obvious. So really as little as I'm able to carry, I think a holstered gun will always feel a bit foriegn to me compared to someone who does it on a daily basis. Truth is I go to the range once or twice a month, but the only time I practice drawing a weapon and rapid fire is when I'm at those out of the way places. I can't recall the last time I've put my finger in the trigger gaurd before I was ready to fire, and anytime I pick up a gun I check to see if it's loaded...everytime.

So I suppose I'm admitting that I'm still at a level where I could make a mistake. I'll bet the officers with "training" felt confident until they screwed up and it went bang. Someone who commits thier lifestyle (such as yourself) to handling guns probably has almost eliminated that possibility. Same reason a double action only has merits, it can help prevent a single action accidental discharge in a tense situation, that with training should never happen.

So for me right now my choices are to carry a revolver (which I've done) or to carry a DA/SA auto (or DAO) which I've done or to modify a Glock to work for me. And no I'm not stuck on the idea, but I really like the model 30 and haven't found the same features in another gun with a safety. So assuming for a minute that this mod is reliable I think it could be a great compromise for my situation. One of the magazine tests on this mod timed shooters draw and fire time on the same gun with and without the safety. On average it was less than 1/10 of a second. The way I see it, when I carry now my first shot is DA,(on my USP) I'd rather sacrifice 1/10 of a second than aim with a DA trigger pull on a first critical shot.

So you see, I'm not disagreeing with you. But practically for my situation I'll never storm a house, unfortunately probably never carry on the street, I don't holster in my house (I'd grab a shotgun first anyway) and the odds of me having to actually use it are probably slimmer than accidentally expanding a hollowpoint in my thigh in the middle of nowhere due to making a mistake. What a situation that would be. So I'm willing to make that compromise, yes to safegaurd myself from a possible moment of incompetence. Some of you may say "then don't carry at all",hey life is full of risk/reward ratios and every one is a personal decision and that's mine. I also realize I would be at a disadvantage in a gunfight with someone who is highly skilled in tactical training no matter what/how I carry, but at least this way I have a fighting chance, and if I'm way outnumbered maybe I'm just screwed. But I'd like to keep the odds closer to my side. Of course I could always stop going to the middle of nowhere to camp, but I won't live in fear of a chance somthing bad will happen.

WOW, I went way off my original question! But I guess this thread was destined to go there anyway.

Oh yeah, happy Easter everyone!

[MaceWindu]

M1371,

Superb points. Spent Shell, you need some training? Join me here: \

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/training/schedule.php

June 23 - 24 Fighting Rifle San Jose, CA

Be a doer, not a talker. Hopefully, I will see you there.

Mace