East German Makarovs?

[kenc9]

Well done...Perfect!

That is what I needed...Thank you

-ken

[maxicon]

I have always heard that Ca. doesn't recognize curios under 50 years.

California gun laws will definitely make your head swim. If they could only get their web site to indent correctly, it would be a little easier to figure out.

Here's the 50 year reference to rifles. I was wrong on a small detail; they do specify C&R in the rifle definition, but they specifically call out the 50 year old limit. This means that C&R long guns less than 50 years old are not covered by this exclusion, while the pistols section doesn't have any age specification.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/dwc.htm

12078(t)(2) - Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

which is referring to:

12072(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

It's too bad - if they didn't have the 50 year text and relied strictly on the Federal definition like they do for pistols, we'd be able to have the Yugo M59 SKS shipped straight to our doors with a C&R license...

max

[juha_teuvonnen]

to make the long story short

I have a C&R license. Here's the deal:

InCA for a firearm to be C&R it has to be at least 50 years old. Period.

I can have C&R rifles shipped to my home, no FFL needs to be involved.

In CA all handguns have to go through FFL. Period.

Becasue I have a C&R I can buy guns that are not on the CA DOJ "safe handgun" list from out of state. They have to be shipped to FFL.

P.S. I am not a lawyer and I am not offering legal advice in this posting. My understanding of the law may be wrong. Your mileage may vary.

[xenophobe]

Not really... Federal law says that the transaction must be a legal transaction in the state of residence. Not so much that CA law is greater than Federal law, but that the Federal law in this instance refers back to state requirements. (Okay, semantics, I know...)

Read below

No. California does not attempt to define what a C&R is or is not. See below.

They actually do in several circumstances. Machine guns that are Federally exempt as C&R status, as well as short barreled rifles or shotguns do not have C&R status in California. This is State Law > Federal Law.

I do stand corrected about C&R or 50 years old for a handgun, I was indeed mixing the two. Any handgun that is not on the list and is not over 50 years and does not qualify as a curio and relic and must be listed as a Safe Handgun or PPT'ed. However, you may go out of state and purchase a C&R handgun that is less than 50 years old and physically bring it back into the state, but you are required to register it within 5 days of returning.

What California does do is exclude long-guns from the DROS process when they are older than 50 years.

WRONG. There is no exclusion from the DROS process for C&R long guns on a FFL sale or consignment, or with long guns that are greater than 50 years old.

A long gun that is greater than 50 years old may be transferred between private individuals without the requirement of having an FFL act as a transferring private party dealer, but any transfer of a firearm that is not an antique or black powder muzzle loader must be DROSed if an FFL is involved.

For handguns, CA recognizes the Federal License and allows it to be used in conjunction with the states own Certificate of Eligability to waive certain requirements (10 day wait period and frequency of purchase limitations). California has also excluded handguns as defined by the Feds from the requirements of the safety test.

But they must still be DROSed and you must still pay the fee.

[jmlivingston]

They actually do in several circumstances. Machine guns that are Federally exempt as C&R status, as well as short barreled rifles or shotguns do not have C&R status in California. This is State Law > Federal Law.

I'll continue to disagree with you here, what you're describing is the practical effect of other state law rather than what's actually a codified definition of Curio & Relic in either California's Penal Code or Code Of Regulations. The net effect however is the same.

WRONG. There is no exclusion from the DROS process for C&R long guns on a FFL sale or consignment, or with long guns that are greater than 50 years old.

A long gun that is greater than 50 years old may be transferred between private individuals without the requirement of having an FFL act as a transferring private party dealer, but any transfer of a firearm that is not an antique or black powder muzzle loader must be DROSed if an FFL is involved.

Not so much wrong as incomplete, it is correct for face-to-face transactions.

John

[xenophobe]

I'll continue to disagree with you here, what you're describing is the practical effect of other state law rather than what's actually a codified definition of Curio & Relic in either California's Penal Code or Code Of Regulations. The net effect however is the same.

It is California law taking precedence over Federal law. Much like our AWB made the FAWB a moot point. DOJ did not care about FAWB compliance, nor did the ATF care about RR'89 or 922r compliance in California.

Not so much wrong as incomplete, it is correct for face-to-face transactions.

I'm a FFL, and that is where my viewpoint comes in. There is no exemption as far as I'm concerned. There is no "DROS exempt" paperwork.