1911 Build Question

[mattb275]

Gents,

I'm looking into doing my first 1911 build and have some questions after doing some "research." So it looks like we have to buy fully assembled guns (for the most part) and do customization ourselves instead of building from the ground up (unless I can find a private party that has a frame). I work overseas 3 out of 4 months of the year so traveling around in search of a frame isn't really an option for me. I'm would like to pick the brains of some of you fine scholars on here and ask what my best options are. I've heard the whole "get the cheapest 1911 you can and go from there" line and just want to make sure that that is the best solution for me. I do want something that I can put time into, I'm looking for those nice and snug tolerances. Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Stay classy.

[John Browning]

1911 work isn't like AR "builds." Unless you're going to do many 1911s, you'll spend much less money and get a vastly superior product if you buy the 1911 you want and have an experienced 1911 smith work on it for you. The tools and manual you'll need to get started will run you the cost of a very nice 1911 alone. You're also going to need extra parts because you'll screw them up, and you'll need to invest lots of time to get the skills to do it correctly. There is a reason that the number of really good 1911 smiths in the country can be counted on all your fingers.

If you're determined to customize your own 1911, buy a cheapo Armscor and work on it. If you can take a working Armscor, work on it, and it still works, you've succeeded. The only way I'd suggest really going into this is if you want to build yourself a nice 1911 every year.

[mattb275]

Thanks for the advice man. Actually, I kinda am looking into getting serious with 1911s. I had a good armorer up in WA when I lived up there and he taught me quite a bit about smithing them. Like I said I'm not home a lot but like working on my guns and figure I'd like to be able to build myself some nice pistols.

[John Browning]

Thanks for the advice man. Actually, I kinda am looking into getting serious with 1911s. I had a good armorer up in WA when I lived up there and he taught me quite a bit about smithing them. Like I said I'm not home a lot but like working on my guns and figure I'd like to be able to build myself some nice pistols.

The best way to get your feet wet is to take a basic blaster cheap 1911 and work on it to your hearts content.

[9mmepiphany]

The two basic questions you need to answer is 1) how much machine work you are able to perform and 2) do you really believe you are able to correctly fit a 1911 barrel.

If you don't have the machining experience/ability, you'll want to by someone with the major machining already done...sight cuts, ejection port.

There are a lot of folks who can fit a 1911 barrel, that are a whole lot fewer who can fit one correctly

[wash]

Starting a custom 1911 on a junk 1911 will end with a junky custom 1911.

The Armscorp/RIA/Charles Daly/etc. use cast frames that quite often have porous steel, are out of spec in some way or are just loaded with casting flash.

My Charles Daly has all three.

A good custom 1911 should start with a forged steel frame that is in spec and at least fairly well machined.

I suggest Colt, Springfield, Norinco, Systema Colt/DGFM and there are several other American frames that are forged or good billet steel.

Lastly, 80% is a neat way to go. Look at the Ares Armor Rudius and KTO 80%, but probably skip the 60% if you aren't a real machinist looking for a project.

Any way, if you start with good parts and fit things correctly, you can make a nice custom 1911 and if you have good taste it might even retain value.

If you start with junk, you'll wind up with a $200 front strap checkering job (showing off casting voids) on a $300 gun.

[wash]

Starting a custom 1911 on a junk 1911 will end with a junky custom 1911.

The Armscorp/RIA/Charles Daly/etc. use cast frames that quite often have porous steel, are out of spec in some way or are just loaded with casting flash.

My Charles Daly has all three.

A good custom 1911 should start with a forged steel frame that is in spec and at least fairly well machined.

I suggest Colt, Springfield, Norinco, Systema Colt/DGFM and there are several other American frames that are forged or good billet steel.

Lastly, 80% is a neat way to go. Look at the Ares Armor Rudius and KTO 80%, but probably skip the 60% if you aren't a real machinist looking for a project.

Any way, if you start with good parts and fit things correctly, you can make a nice custom 1911 and if you have good taste it might even retain value.

If you start with junk, you'll wind up with a $200 front strap checkering job (showing off casting voids) on a $300 gun.

[John Browning]

Starting a custom 1911 on a junk 1911 will end with a junky custom 1911.

The Armscorp/RIA/Charles Daly/etc. use cast frames that quite often have porous steel, are out of spec in some way or are just loaded with casting flash.

My Charles Daly has all three.

A good custom 1911 should start with a forged steel frame that is in spec and at least fairly well machined.

I suggest Colt, Springfield, Norinco, Systema Colt/DGFM and there are several other American frames that are forged or good billet steel.

Lastly, 80% is a neat way to go. Look at the Ares Armor Rudius and KTO 80%, but probably skip the 60% if you aren't a real machinist looking for a project.

Any way, if you start with good parts and fit things correctly, you can make a nice custom 1911 and if you have good taste it might even retain value.

If you start with junk, you'll wind up with a $200 front strap checkering job (showing off casting voids) on a $300 gun.

This is all true. However, the chances that a first time 1911 builder will take a $1,000 slide and frame, another $500 or so in parts, and turn it into a jam-o-matic, irrepairable $500 turd that you can't pawn off are pretty high. If you can take a $500 gun, add in $300 i parts, and you have a $600 gun that still works, you've won. A good custom 1911 needs to start with a good custom 1911 smith. The only way to become a good 1911 smith is to wreck a few guns along the way as part of the learning process. I'd rather learn on a beater than wreck a very nice and expensive frame and slide. A first time mechanic doesn't need to be popping the hood on a Ferrari, and a virgin doesn't need to have their first go with Megan Fox, and in both cases they'd be in way over their head from the start.

If you could take a $700 Caspian frame (which are also cast), add in another $500 in parts, and crank out a very nice 1911, everyone would do it. There is a reason very few do. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but the chances of doing it perfectly on your first go round are pretty much zero.

[mattb275]

This is all true. However, the chances that a first time 1911 builder will take a $1,000 slide and frame, another $500 or so in parts, and turn it into a jam-o-matic, irrepairable $500 turd that you can't pawn off are pretty high. If you can take a $500 gun, add in $300 i parts, and you have a $600 gun that still works, you've won. A good custom 1911 needs to start with a good custom 1911 smith. The only way to become a good 1911 smith is to wreck a few guns along the way as part of the learning process. I'd rather learn on a beater than wreck a very nice and expensive frame and slide. A first time mechanic doesn't need to be popping the hood on a Ferrari, and a virgin doesn't need to have their first go with Megan Fox, and in both cases they'd be in way over their head from the start.

If you could take a $700 Caspian frame (which are also cast), add in another $500 in parts, and crank out a very nice 1911, everyone would do it. There is a reason very few do. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but the chances of doing it perfectly on your first go round are pretty much zero.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I am pretty competent in my smithing abilities, but that said i'm sure I'll mess a few up along the way. I'll look into those 80%ers you mentioned. And I would have LOVED to get ruined by Megan Fox BTW...