My how handgun training has changed

[unusedusername]

There is a vintage FBI video going around from 1969.



The positions they trained people to shoot from were... vintage?

I can't believe they trained people to try to fire from the hip. You can't hit anything like that.

I guess tactics have changed quite a bit from the olden days.

[AE102]

Yeah, interesting to watch that then watch Paul Castle's Evolution of the gun right afterwards:



Now about that stance....reminds me of this

[scootle]

things didn't evolve much until Jack Weaver came around and the techniques evolved (via Col Cooper) and gained traction as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Technique_of_the_Pistol

before that, shooting from the hip was sort of the status quo...

[9mmepiphany]

Yup, the academy staff when I started in LE in '79 were still teaching the FBI style...hard to believe anyone really believed holding your fist in front of your heart would deflect a bullet.

A little way into my career we changed over to the Weaver and we even taught the Speed Rock for close shots...that's where I saw someone miss a B-27 from 3' away.

About half way though my career, we changed over to the Modern Isosceles and that brought in a lot of improvement to qualification scores

[zfields]

Yup, the academy staff when I started in LE in '79 were still teaching the FBI style...hard to believe anyone really believed holding your fist in front of your heart would deflect a bullet.

A little way into my career we changed over to the Weaver and we even taught the Speed Rock for close shots...that's where I saw someone miss a B-27 from 3' away.

About half way though my career, we changed over to the Modern Isosceles and that brought in a lot of improvement to qualification scores

Speed rock? Mind elaborating?

['Rush']

Um, I never knew about the bullet ricochet being parallel to the ground O_o!!

[elSquid]

things didn't evolve much until Jack Weaver came around and the techniques evolved (via Col Cooper) and gained traction as:

I love that video - funny stuff!

before that, shooting from the hip was sort of the status quo...

-- Michael

[Dhena81]

There is a vintage FBI video going around from 1969.


The positions they trained people to shoot from were... vintage?

I can't believe they trained people to try to fire from the hip. You can't hit anything like that.

I guess tactics have changed quite a bit from the olden days.

Must have been the Westerns

[BamBam-31]

Speed rock? Mind elaborating?

I'm guessing that's where you draw, rotate the gun forward at holster level, lean back, then shoot.

[9mmepiphany]

Yup, pretty much.

It was based on the old Quick Draw technique...and preceded the current Position of Retention (Position 2 in the 4 step draw)...and is what I consider true point shooting (where you don't see the gun at all)

You drew and rotated the muzzle toward the target as soon as the muzzle cleared the top of the holster. At the same time, you leaned backwards from the hips to bring the muzzle up faster...pressing the trigger as your muzzle leveled.

It is really quite fast and pretty accurate with some practice...I recently used it in an IDPA match on a target at about 4 feet...the hard part was transitioning between two targets. The problem is that it throws you off balance unless you really know what you're trying to do...most newbies will miss to the left off the target

Looks something like this

[zfields]

Yup, pretty much.

It was based on the old Quick Draw technique...and preceded the current Position of Retention (Position 2 in the 4 step draw)...and is what I consider true point shooting (where you don't see the gun at all)

You drew and rotated the muzzle toward the target as soon as the muzzle cleared the top of the holster. At the same time, you leaned backwards from the hips to bring the muzzle up faster...pressing the trigger as your muzzle leveled.

It is really quite fast and pretty accurate with some practice...I recently used it in an IDPA match on a target at about 4 feet...the hard part was transitioning between two targets. The problem is that it throws you off balance unless you really know what you're trying to do...most newbies will miss to the left off the target

Looks something like this

Had a feeling thats what it was. I've heard it called a few different names, never speed rock.

Thanks for the explination.

[9mmepiphany]

The name comes from the Cowboy Quick Draw competitions that was so popular in the 60's and was part of the Modern Technique, taught at Gunsite, under that name.

When Bill Rogers introduced it to the FBI, that's what they called it too.

I didn't think anyone was still teaching it anymore. I thought most schools were teaching shooting from the position of retention.

[zfields]

Gotcha, Retention position is what I normally hear connected with that style, cept' with the goofy arm covering your head going on.

[BamBam-31]

Hey, I think I found one of 9mmepiphany's old Academy pics!

[Lugiahua]

The name comes from the Cowboy Quick Draw competitions that was so popular in the 60's and was part of the Modern Technique, taught at Gunsite, under that name.

When Bill Rogers introduced it to the FBI, that's what they called it too.

I didn't think anyone was still teaching it anymore. I thought most schools were teaching shooting from the position of retention.

They still teach it in Frontsight as far as I know. They use the 5 steps drawing, and speed rock/point shooting is the step three.