Has SIG honestly declined in quality?

[Sturnovik]

For those saying that Sig quality hasn't taken a dip, ever notice how you don't see these kinds of threads about CZ?

Do you really believe that there are just a select few people, jumping on the internets to specifically complain about Sig?

-Freq

I see them for CZ, Glock, and even the mighty HK. The Internet can be a powerful tool for information and just as easily distort.

[beetle]

good and interesting discussion. From my perspective, I think the mainstream sigs have decreased in quality and craftsmanship. However, I am uncertain if this decrease has signficantly impacted reliability. Something can be cheaply or poorly made, yet still be reliable (for example, stamped AKs).

The high end Sigs (P210, X series, etc) are still made in Germany and are finished to a very high level.

However, in my opinion the mainstream Sigs (P226, etc) have decreased in quality. Take for example my P226-BTFO. This is an Exeter gun made during the first Obama rush, when Sig was only supplying 1 magazine. I've examined other guns made in this period and they exhibit the same level of quality/finishing.

Issue #1 - uneven finishing. This is not dirt or oil, the finish is very uneven on this gun.


Issue #2 - Front sight not centered on slide. Relatively easy fix, but shouldn't have happened on a new gun that "passed" QA.



Issue #3 - The others are nit-picky, but this is the biggest issue in my opinon. The way the slide is designed there needs to be a cutout so that you can lift the barrel out. On my example, this cutout is very poorly made -- almost as if someone took a chisel to the slide. Its extremely rough with sharp edges, uneven, and worst of all there is active rust on this unfinished area!




So yes I think sig quality has decreased, especially if fit and finish are components of "quality".

[InGrAM]

^ That last picture, that is how the gun came from the factory? WTF...???

[BigRobb]

I've never owned a West German Sig before. But I have fired one that had roughly 2000 rounds through it (P228). I also own a SP2022 bought this summer. Already 1200 rounds through.

The owner of the P228 said he never had a problem with the weapon.

I have never had any problem with my 2022 (shot mostly PMC bronze through it)

Is the quality the same? Say a 229 vs old 228? Nope? I believe the older Sigs are built better. Just the same, unless I am real lucky...mine has been 100% reliable.

[Striker]

Understood but how much better can you get than 100% reliable?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Look at this way. A Springfield TRP Operator will, in general, be 100% reliable. Is it as nice as a SACS Professional Operator? No, why? Because everything about the the Pro is a little nicer. The craftsmanship is better. Doesn't make the TRP a bad gun, just not of the same build quality.

[DArBad]

.............. From my perspective.....


................ fit and finish are components of "quality".

I couldn't agree more, beetle!

In this day and age, and with the high prices of guns, fit/finish/function should all go hand-in-hand.

[Shenaniguns]

FroM what I understand is the same CEO that ruined the quality of Kimber is now the CEO of SIG.

Correct, his name is Ron Cohen and he's found ways to go cheap with MIM parts over the once machined variety which was tougher. Now it's all about Flash and less about their old "To hell and back" reputation.

[tbc]

Correct, his name is Ron Cohen and he's found ways to go cheap with MIM parts over the once machined variety which was tougher. Now it's all about Flash and less about their old "To hell and back" reputation.

Just wonder if this guy introduced Lean Six Sigma to reduce manufacturing cost. The concept works but has to be implemented correctly. If not, quality will go down hill.


Sent from my iPhone 6

[RECCE556]

I have old and new SIGs. I think SIG has "cheapened" their guns and have softened up their QC. My SP2022's were both problematic and required SIG to replace some pretty key components. Makes me wonder if they ever test fired these. That aside, the biggest problem with SIG is Ron Cohen. I mean how many SKU's does SIG need? They should concentrate more on building quality guns, not offer ten thousand "options" of basically the same gun.

As far as SIG vs. Glock, I have a variety of BOTH brands and honestly, I prefer the Glocks hands down for a variety of reasons. For one, I MUCH prefer a "single action" type trigger (same pull all the time). The DA -> SA is annoying. I also prefer the location of the slide stop/release on the Glocks as I shoot "thumbs forward" just like how I shoot my 1911's (granted it's more "high thumb" with my thumb on top of the safety). Plus the SIG's DA requires me to install a Short Trigger and they all need the Short Reset. I've never "short pulled" a trigger on my Glocks or 1911's but I used to do it all the time on my SIG's before the SRT. Also, I think my Glocks (compared to similar SIG's) shoot smoother with the SIGs being slightly more accurate overall (my 1911's being more accurate than the SIGs). However, the slight gain in accuracy over the Glocks is nowhere near enough to offset the other issues.

[.40Cal]

I never understood why people would always recommend the West German Sigs over today's Sigs. It actually pisses me off whenever I read or hear that. I think most people hear it and just repeat it. I own two Sigs. A P220R from 2009 and a P226R (9mm) from 2012. Both are made in Exeter. I can honestly say that they have both been 100% reliable. Buy with confidence.

I agree.... And I like the looks of the NEW ones, the egronomics, the rail........and haven't had any issues...If your particular gun has issues, Sig will make it right, I'm sure.

So, I think they're just fine.

[boingo]

I've got a P229 from 1994 and a P239 from 1995. They are super refined and mechanically precise. They were pistols number two and four for me. The others were Glocks. It's funny, but even though I knew very little back then about guns, I was struck by just how different the guns felt to operate and the philosophies behind them. Sigs involved so many parts working in harmony to achieve that smooth, clean feel compared to Glocks which seemed to do what was necessary with so much less involved. Putting in MIM parts like they do now would have sabotaged the precision and toughness as would the alleged modern sloppy fits and finish of parts. Funny enough, but Glocks seem to be suffering the same fate with their Gen 4's and late Gen 3's.

I love my Sigs for the craftsmanship as well as the reliability. I would never buy a newer made one under Cohen's regime and in fact feel the older ones often listed here are among the best kept secret steals one can make with a firearm purchase.

[trapshot68]

I don't remember the year of my 228, but it was of course the folded slide variety. It was good and I stupidly sold it. But, it was sloppy on the frame to slide fit. Still accurate.

My 226 is a 2008 German frame variety. Just as good, if not better then the 228. And tight on the fit.

So no, no decline for me in my apparent rare case.

[starsnuffer]

The new ones are pretty. The older ones work.

-W

[Mr310]

The new old ones are pretty. The older They all work.

-W

Fixed it for you.

[Cato]

Yes, Sig went from an AWESOME, gun maker to a below average gun maker. When the rush to fill orders when Obama was elected happened, Sig ramped up production and quality fell. Things I have noticed were 1) plastic guide rods versus steel rods and 2) uneven finishes. These are just a couple things I, an average Joe, has noticed. I can only imagine what other "cost saving" measures have taken place. Others have already posted what they have seen with Post Obama Sigs.