FN 5.7

[phrogg111]

Armor piercing handgun ammunition isn't banned in California, it's banned by federal law.

Without AP rounds (which are hot loaded), you need to get really hot loaded, REALLY expensive defense rounds. The company I always looked at to compare my statistics to apparently got shut down by the ATF, which raided them/arrested them/stole their stuff for doing something that they themselves deemed was not illegal. So, I dunno where to get good ammo.

FN's blue tip 5.7x28 is pretty lame - .22 magnum rifle energy out of a handgun. That's not a selling point for an $1100 gun.

Capacity is the biggest issue, but like I said before, Glock 17C will have the same capacity (just about) - 19+1 and 33+1 instead of 20+1 and 30+1.

[ROCKETW19]

man you guys are swaying me to a glock 45 and pimping it out at glockworx.
I just want a cool fun gun why are laws have to take fun outta everything. you and i both know we could get a 30 round mag for that gun if we wanted and I am sure if a bank robber wanted one he could to so why the stupid laws? they help ZERO.

[saki302]

GIven a choice, get the IOM, it's more collectible. The USG (square trigger guard) does have a better grip though- the checkering grabs the hand better than the IOM 'pimples'.

SS195 or SS198 makes much better defensive rounds than the blue tip 197- it's hotter and higher velocity. But blue tip is great for practice.

I still don't get where people say it costs so much to shoot. The price is about the same as .40 (on a good day- seen it as low as $19/50) to .45 ACP (on a bad day- $24/50).

-Dave

[keenkeen]

Armor piercing handgun ammunition isn't banned in California, it's banned by federal law.

Are you sure?

Can you provide some backup/info on this?

[Oceanbob]

its 10 rounds no matter what gun you have. so why would the limit matter?
is gun comps are you still restricted to 10 round and bullet buttons ect or is there something different for comps?
ammo restrictions, like what armor piercing or something different?

when was the FN made I could of swore I bought at least 5 full cvap mags before the ban I would just have to go check my garage full of every mag every made know to man kind

Not true for everyone. Plenty of people own preban Glock, HK and other magazines these days.

[SoCal Gunner]

man you guys are swaying me to a glock 45 and pimping it out at glockworx.
I just want a cool fun gun why are laws have to take fun outta everything. you and i both know we could get a 30 round mag for that gun if we wanted and I am sure if a bank robber wanted one he could to so why the stupid laws? they help ZERO.

Rocket,

Come on over to the fivesevenforum.com and learn so much more about this platform. There is so much misinformation out there, including this thread, about this round that I'm not even going to get into it here.

I'm over there with the same Screen Name.
SoCal Gunner

[d4v0s]

Are you sure?

Can you provide some backup/info on this?

Repost from thehighroad.org
__________________________________________________ _____________
From the ATF website:


Under Title 18, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 44 as amended by Public Law 103-322
The Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (enacted September 13, 1994) 18 U.S.C. CHAPTER 44 § 921(a)(17)(B) the term 'armor piercing ammunition' means --

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.


§ 922(a) It shall be unlawful --


(7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to --


(A) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof;
(B) the manufacture of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation; and
(C) any manufacture or importation for the purpose of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary; and


(8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to --

(A) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department agency, or political subdivision thereof;
(B) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation;
(C) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purposes of testing or experimenting authorized by the Secretary.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver--


(5) any firearm or armor-piercing ammunition to any person unless the licensee notes in his records, required to be kept pursuant to section 923 of this chapter, the name, age, and place of residence of such person if the person is an individual, or the identity and principal and local places of business of such person if the person is a corporation or other business entity.
§ 923

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Secretary... Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license to do so from the Secretary... Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:


(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer-

(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;

(2) If the applicant is an importer-

(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year.

(e) ...The Secretary may, after notice and opportunity for hearing, revoke the license of a dealer who willfully transfers armor piercing ammunition...

(k) Licensed importers and licensed manufactures shall mark all armor piecing projectiles and packages containing such projectiles for distribution in the manner prescribed by the Secretary by regulation. The Secretary shall furnish information to each dealer licensed under this chapter defining which projectiles are considered armor piercing ammunition as defined by section 921(a)(17)(B).

§ 929(a)

(1) Whoever, during and in relation to the commission of a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime which provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which he may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm and is in possession of armor piercing ammunition capable of being fired in that firearm, shall in addition to the punishment provided for the commission of such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment for not less than five years.

(b) Not withstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not suspend the sentence of any person convicted of a violation of this section, nor place the person on probation, nor shall the terms of imprisonment run concurrently with any other terms of imprisonment, including that imposed for the crime in which the armor piercing ammunition was used or possessed. No person sentenced under this section shall be eligible for parole during the term of impressment imposed herein.

List of Armor Piercing Ammunition
KTW AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a green coating on the projectile)

ARCANE AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a pointed bronze or brass projectile)

THV AMMUNITION, all calibers. (Identified by a brass or bronze projectile and having a headstamp containing the letters SFM and THV)

CZECHOSLOVAKIAN manufactured 9mm Parabellum (Luger) ammunition having an iron or steel core. (Identified by a cupronickel jacket and headstamp containing a triangle, star and dates 49, 50, 51, or 52. The bullet is attracted to a magnet)

GERMAN manufactured 9mm Parabellum (Luger) having an iron or steel bullet core. (Original packaging is marked Pisolenpatronen 08 m.E. May have black colored bullet. This bullet is attracted to a magnet)

MSC AMMUNITION, Caliber .25. (Identified by a hollow point brass bullet. NOTE: MSC ammunition Caliber .25 identified by a hollow point copper bullet is not armor piercing)

BLACK STEEL ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION, All Calibers, as produced by National Cartridge, Atlanta, Georgia.

BLACK STEEL METAL PIERCING AMMUNITION, All Calibers, as produced by National Cartridge, Atlanta, Georgia.

7.62mm NATO AP (Identified by black coloring in the bullet tip. This ammunition is used by various NATO countries. The U.S. military designation is M61 AP)

7.62mm NATO SLAP (identified by projectile having a plastic sabot around a hard penetrator. The penetrator protrudes above the sabot and is similar in appearance to a Remington accelerator cartridge)

PMC ULTRAMAG .38 Special caliber, constructed entirely of a brass type material, and plastic pusher disc located at the base of the projectile. NOTE: PMC ULTRAMAG 38J late production made of copper with lead alloy projectile is not armor piercing.

OMNISHOCK, a .38 Special cartridge with a lead bullet containing a mild steel core with a flattened head resembling a wad cutter. (NOTE: OMNISHOCK cartridges having a bullet with an aluminum core are not armor piercing.)

7.62x39mm with steel core. (NOTE: these projectiles have a steel core. Projectiles having a lead core with steel jacket or steel case are not armor piercing)

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green coating on the projectile tip.

U.S. .30-06 M2 AP, Identified by a black coating on the projectile tip.


SHORT VERSION
__________________________________________________ _______________
Legal to possess, not to make or import.

A round is only considered "armor piercing" if all of the following are true:
-it can be fired from a handgun
-the bullet has a metal core
-the ATF declares such to be true regarding that specific round
-it also isnt 5.56x45mm or 30-06 AP ball

[ROCKETW19]

Rocket,

Come on over to the fivesevenforum.com and learn so much more about this platform. There is so much misinformation out there, including this thread, about this round that I'm not even going to get into it here.

I'm over there with the same Screen Name.
SoCal Gunner

damn it I jumped the GUN and bought a Glock 21 saturday! I still could go grab a FN but i have lots to spend at glockworx first.
there was a picture of a glockworx G21 in the new Recoil mag and it sold me right there,lol I am a sucker for cool looking things.
kinda what got me into the 5.7 cool round.

[keenkeen]

SHORT VERSION
__________________________________________________ _______________
Legal to possess, not to make or import.

A round is only considered "armor piercing" if all of the following are true:
-it can be fired from a handgun
-the bullet has a metal core
-the ATF declares such to be true regarding that specific round
-it also isnt 5.56x45mm or 30-06 AP ball

Yeah, that is what I always figured ON A FEDERAL LEVEL...I generally go by:



Not really the same thing as "banned by federal law".

Now, as for the CA part of the statement from phrogg111 I asked about:

Armor piercing handgun ammunition isn't banned in California, it's banned by federal law.

I assumed, The relevant penal code sections are 12320 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12320.html) and 12321 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12321.html):

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state
knowingly possesses any handgun ammunition designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor is guilty of a public offense and upon
conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state
prison, or in the county jail for a term not to exceed one year, or
by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both
such fine and imprisonment.

Any person, firm, or corporation who, within this state,
manufactures, imports, sells, offers to sell, or knowingly transports
any handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or
armor is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by imprisonment in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed
five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both such fine and
imprisonment.

If someone headed out to the range with such ammo they could apparently get charged with two different crimes: transporting it (12321) and possessing it (12320).

I thought maybe this had changed or phrogg111 had some additional info.