1911 intrigue...why?

[POINTMANDDT]

Not sure where to go with this so I will make some general comments. There are many quality 1911s out there--many are not determined by the manufacturer and model number. Especially for less expensive 1911's, they will require additional work to get them "tuned" in.

As far a Glocks, they are relatively inexpensive guns that tend to run out of the box, are easy to maintain (no fitted parts), and easy to clean. It is hard to beat their reliability but they are not as precise as a 1911 design due to the differences in the way they lock up. This is often not an issue for defensive applications.

For the price of a Glock, it is difficult to get a 1911 that runs well and is reliable without a bunch of custom work.

I am a pretty big 1911 fan but have come to appreciate the simplicity/reliability of a Glock. I always say "Give me a Glock with a 1911 trigger and I am all over that." Glock triggers suck.

I will agree the glock STOCK trigger is no good and its hard to find a trigger better than the 1911. But, I have done my own work on my glock trigger getting anywhere from 3.43 lbs to 1.74 lbs depending on the striker spring I use. I also used a ghost rocket trigger and polished the parts and my break is just as clean if no cleaner than my 1911. The trigger travel is a whole different thing and I know 1911 guys hate that long pull and I can't hold that against them. From an accuracy stand point the 1911 is great, I can give that to the 1911, but within 50 yards I have yet to meet anyone that can get tighter groups with their 1911 than I can with my glock 17 or 19,not to say they're not out there because I know they are.

[acolytes]

[QUOTE=t0kie;9268209]This^^^, "gotta pay to play"

To me, I love 1911 because the slim grip, the trigger, the look & the history behind it, period![/QUOTE]

+1

[gundad]

They are like mammary glands because there is nothing not to like about them. I mostly like the grip that fits my hand and trigger though.

[bombadillo]

Kind of like the jeep guys say "Its a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."


I'll say; "Its a 1911 thing, you wouldn't understand."


Thats the best way I can describe it. You either get and have the feel of a 1911 or you don't. I LOVE my 1911's and they're my favorite to shoot except maybe my .22lr pistol as well. You either feel it or not, whether its a RIA or a full house Stan Chen custom job.

[Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese]

I intend to shoot my 1911 thousands and thousands of time for the pure satisfaction it gives me and to build strong trust with myself and the "limited magazine"

[POINTMANDDT]

Kind of like the jeep guys say "Its a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."


I'll say; "Its a 1911 thing, you wouldn't understand."


Thats the best way I can describe it. You either get and have the feel of a 1911 or you don't. I LOVE my 1911's and they're my favorite to shoot except maybe my .22lr pistol as well. You either feel it or not, whether its a RIA or a full house Stan Chen custom job.

I love my 1911, I just love my glock more. Because what I have seen on the range the malfunctions of the 1911's. I saw one guy at a match that lubed his 1911 every 200-250 rounds. If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that. Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

[Lead Waster]

I'll pass along a funny story. I took a four-day handgun class and a guy came with a pimped out Glock. He spent a pile of money on modifications and was glad to tell you about them. He would go to the line with a can of spray lubrication. After every few shots he would spray the gun with the lubricant to keep it from malfunctioning. Even with that, the gun would often malfunction. Despite his claim that it would be extremely reliable once it was broken in, you could not have given me that gun. I am glad he was happy with his gun but I would not own it.

Well, this story only says one thing "Don't modify your guns if you don't know what you are doing".

You can turn anything into an unreliable piece of junk if you spend enough money on it.

I'm thinking that if that same guy showed up with a stock glock, nothing interesting would have happened.

I'm sure that in the future sometime, someone else will design a better gun with an amazing trigger and we'll be debating how the 1911 trigger sucks compared to the psychic trigger of the Megawhomp 2256.

[Merc1138]

I love my 1911, I just love my glock more. Because what I have seen on the range the malfunctions of the 1911's. I saw one guy at a match that lubed his 1911 every 200-250 rounds. If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that. Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

[POINTMANDDT]

Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

I can see that.....

[agent.5]

I'm sure that in the future sometime, someone else will design a better gun with an amazing trigger and we'll be debating how the 1911 trigger sucks compared to the psychic trigger of the Megawhomp 2256.

electronic trigger, but then you will need "tactical" battery

[SilverTauron]

Ill just post this here rant. People with thin skins can click the back button now.

Still with me?

One problem in the gun world, if we can call it that, is one of mistaken priorities. People consider Glocks superior because they can run for 10s of thousands of rounds with little maintenance, police agencies across America use them, and they're easy to shoot well.

If one works in a police agency, military unit, or public agency where the weapon is likely to be damaged and marred in its daily use then such an appliance makes sense. This thankfully is NOT the environment encountered by the typical concealed carrier in America. IT guys, insurance salesman, claims processors, and public business owners aren't jumping out of airplanes and marching 40 kilos in a jungle. Not only is the typical gun owner not in danger of losing their sidearm on a HALO insertion, but most of us with families and responsibilities outside of shooting flatly cannot afford to run 10,000 rounds of ammo through a centerfire handgun.

In my neck of the woods it would cost me $2500 to shoot that many 9mm practice rounds. 10K rounds of 45ACP would run nearly $4000. Its one reason why police agencies prefer heavy trigger handguns. A 10lb trigger is a lot cheaper than funding comprehensive handgun training, which is why I can only laugh when people discuss high round count reliability like it is the ballistic holy grail. There are only a small number of shooters who fund that kind of high volume shooting out of their own pocket, and if one has that kind of disposable income than laying aside extra money for gun work won't be a challenge.

I can hear the objections already:"what if your gun FAILS?"

Well, there's no such thing as certainty. A Glock can work perfectly every time you go to the range, and then Kb! the instant a burglar draws down on you. The fact that the weapon went through 10,000 rounds previously without fail won't be much comfort as you face permanent disability or death at the hands of a crook.

As far as a failure is concerned, so what if your extractor quits. Unless one works in a government job that involves travel into places not easily found on a map, a failure means a scrubbed range session and a trip to the local shipping firm or gunsmith. Hardly a crisis of monumental proportions, especially if the owner has a backup handgun-which should be the case for all gun owners. An angry & crazed cop, a bad factory round, or just plain bad luck could all result in your primary weapon being broken or seized. 2 is 1, and one is none.

As such, the comments to the effect that the 1911 is unreliable-some of whom ive said on here myself-are wrong. Most of us won't shoot often enough to break anything serious, and those who do won't be seriously impacted by having to send the weapon off for service. Put the broken gun in a box to send in for warranty, and load up the backup.

[t0kie]

...If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that. Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

Hello brother, yes there are some that will fit your need. This is just one of them, call Bill Wilson for details: http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-cqb-compact.asp

[agent.5]

i actually think the ideal 9mm 4" barrel 1911 "platform" is the wilson spec ops 9. It is designed, from the ground up, to shoot 9mm.

[Rorge Retson]

Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

Ill just post this here rant. People with thin skins can click the back button now.

Still with me?

One problem in the gun world, if we can call it that, is one of mistaken priorities. People consider Glocks superior because they can run for 10s of thousands of rounds with little maintenance, police agencies across America use them, and they're easy to shoot well.

If one works in a police agency, military unit, or public agency where the weapon is likely to be damaged and marred in its daily use then such an appliance makes sense. This thankfully is NOT the environment encountered by the typical concealed carrier in America. IT guys, insurance salesman, claims processors, and public business owners aren't jumping out of airplanes and marching 40 kilos in a jungle. Not only is the typical gun owner not in danger of losing their sidearm on a HALO insertion, but most of us with families and responsibilities outside of shooting flatly cannot afford to run 10,000 rounds of ammo through a centerfire handgun.

In my neck of the woods it would cost me $2500 to shoot that many 9mm practice rounds. 10K rounds of 45ACP would run nearly $4000. Its one reason why police agencies prefer heavy trigger handguns. A 10lb trigger is a lot cheaper than funding comprehensive handgun training, which is why I can only laugh when people discuss high round count reliability like it is the ballistic holy grail. There are only a small number of shooters who fund that kind of high volume shooting out of their own pocket, and if one has that kind of disposable income than laying aside extra money for gun work won't be a challenge.

I can hear the objections already:"what if your gun FAILS?"

Well, there's no such thing as certainty. A Glock can work perfectly every time you go to the range, and then Kb! the instant a burglar draws down on you. The fact that the weapon went through 10,000 rounds previously without fail won't be much comfort as you face permanent disability or death at the hands of a crook.

As far as a failure is concerned, so what if your extractor quits. Unless one works in a government job that involves travel into places not easily found on a map, a failure means a scrubbed range session and a trip to the local shipping firm or gunsmith. Hardly a crisis of monumental proportions, especially if the owner has a backup handgun-which should be the case for all gun owners. An angry & crazed cop, a bad factory round, or just plain bad luck could all result in your primary weapon being broken or seized. 2 is 1, and one is none.

As such, the comments to the effect that the 1911 is unreliable-some of whom ive said on here myself-are wrong. Most of us won't shoot often enough to break anything serious, and those who do won't be seriously impacted by having to send the weapon off for service. Put the broken gun in a box to send in for warranty, and load up the backup.

Excellent posts guys, thank you.

[t0kie]

i actually think the ideal 9mm 4" barrel 1911 "platform" is the wilson spec ops 9. It is designed, from the ground up, to shoot 9mm.

Yeah that thing is niceeeee, but it's hard to find one

Actually, there is another one by Kimber, but I don't know if it's on the roster or not (still doable with SSE): http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/aegis-ii/pro-aegis-ii

I'm not a fan of Kimber because of the firing pin safety & lousy customer service, but had owned some in the past & they were fine.