California approved trigger lock?

[moseng]

Hi all,

My first real post here so be nice!

I am in the process of buying my first hand gun and I'm wondering about something. I asked the salesman for a total on one and he included what he called a "California approved trigger lock". The gun comes with one but according to him it's not California approved. So I checked out what penal codes I could find 25610, and 25505. Then I came here and found this page which was very cool by the way! But nowhere can I find anything about a California approved trigger lock and why I need one to buy a handgun. Is the salesman pulling my chain or is it a law that one must have a "special" type of trigger lock, or any for that matter as long as it's in a locked container when buying a hand gun?

Thanks for you help!

[Army]

No separate TRIGGER lock required. The transport CONTAINER must be locked with a padlock, combo lock, built in lock etc. No description of container in the law, but common sense says it should be one that delays easy entry. Gun box, briefcase, backpack etc are all used and are legal.

Before you ask; Yes, ammo can be carried in the same container. Yes, filled magazines can also be carried the same. No, it is not loaded when ammo is nearby. Keep any ammo out of the magazine well, or revolver chamber (both are considered loaded by law). Yes, ammo can be strewn about your vehicle, or in a bag, or in a box, or in an ammo can. NO, you cannot put it in your locked glove box or utility box. However, if it is locked inside its OWN case, then you can put it in either place. Yes, if your car trunk has NO ACCESS FROM INSIDE, it also counts as a locked container itself. NO, a truck bed utility box is not a trunk, regardless of how it locks.

...lessee..hmm....

An "approved" lock is needed, purchased within the last 30 days (receipt for proof), to remove the gun from the gun store (logic says the lock that comes with the gun was purchased in the last 30 days....but that's usually about how far that goes). After that, it's up to you to transport legally. Good gun stores will sell you a lock, then take a money back return after you put your new gun in the car, and go back into the store.

[littlejake]

Last paragraph of Army is essentially the answer. Let me expand. The gun cannot go out the door with out a lock. Doesn't have to be a trigger lock; but must be CA approved. There is a list. There is now also a federal requirement for a lock. If you buy a new gun, say a Glock 19, it comes with a cable lock; and you are buying that lock with the gun.

If you buy a used gun, say a Glock 19 in the case with the original lock -- that lock no longer qualifies. Why? Stupid laws. You have to have purchased an approved lock in the past 30 days.

That "stupid" lock doesn't even qualify for transporting the gun home. ie --- putting the lock on doesn't take the place of unloaded locked container carry.

You should have looked in the Wiki for locks on this page:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C_Safes.2C_and_Laws

Locks, Safes, and Laws

There are two sets of laws to satisfy, state AND Federal.

California law requires a firearms safety device with each gun delivered (Penal Code 23635 (was 12088.1), added in 1999 with AB 106).

(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a
licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a
dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state, shall include
or be accompanied by a firearm safety device that is listed on the
Department of Justice's roster of approved firearm safety devices
and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by
reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or
to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those
listed on the roster for use with the device.

California law will accept many items to satisfy this requirement - a lock, a safe, a lock-box, or an internal lock designed into the firearm - as a 'firearms safety device' and maintains a list, the Roster of Firearm Safety Devices Certified for Sale.

California will accept a gun lock,with conditions:

(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from
subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety
device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or
transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety
device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to
the firearms dealer, which shows the date of purchase, the name,
and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in
paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along
with the dealer's record of sales of firearms.


California will accept a gun safe as a firearms safety device

(b) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from
subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the
standards set forth in Section 23650. Gun safes shall not be
required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards
without appearing on the Department of Justice roster.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for
purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership
of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the
firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt
or proof of purchase with the dealer's record of sales of firearms.

other proof in (b)(2), above, includes the Safe Affidavit, but that works only for California law - see further, below.

California law - Penal Code 23630 (was 12088.8) - exempts "antique firearms" and firearms sold to LEO "for purposes of law enforcement" from the safety device requirement.

HOWEVER, Federal Law has introduced a complication with handgun purchases.

18 USC 922(z) requires

(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it
shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer
any handgun to any person other than any person licensed
under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a
secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in
section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.

and 18 USC 921(a)(34) has the definition

(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to
prevent the firearm from being operated without first
deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is
designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not
having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device
that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and
that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a
combination, or other similar means.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has yet to issue a regulation which recognizes 18 USC 921(a)(34)(C).

In practice, that means that California and Federal law are different on what is acceptable -- and safe for dealers to accept. For long guns, California FFLs may accept the safe affidavit; but for handguns, because BATFE has not yet ruled, the safe affidavit is NOT acceptable, and buyers may expect to purchase a gun lock with each handgun.

Anecdotal evidence at Calguns suggests that BATFE is in fact specifically refusing to accept the California safe affidavit. See this Calguns post for a reproduction of the letter BATF has sent.

BATFE enforcement of this appears problematical; there seems to be no record keeping requirement to establish the lock presence on delivery in Federal paperwork.

[moseng]

Fantastic!! Thanks for the education! I am getting less and less confused every day!

[littlejake]

Fantastic!! Thanks for the education! I am getting less and less confused every day!

Welcome to Calguns. Where we strive to make sense of nonsense.

Kindest Regards,

Jake

[jpm804]

If you need a cheap lock solution go to Walmart and they have a Winchester one that is $5 bucks and says ca doj approved on it.

Much cheaper than the $10 they usually charge you at most of the LGS's I've seen for the lock.

[Lead Waster]

If you need a cheap lock solution go to Walmart and they have a Winchester one that is $5 bucks and says ca doj approved on it.

Much cheaper than the $10 they usually charge you at most of the LGS's I've seen for the lock.

If you are extremely cheap, buy the Walmart lock, bring it and the receipt to the LGS. Lock the case with the lock that comes with the gun, then go back and return the unused Walmart lock to Walmart.

I'll bring a lock, but I have a safe so the "Safe Affadavit" seems to work, even though I don't have the reciept for the darned safe!

[Librarian]

If you are extremely cheap, buy the Walmart lock, bring it and the receipt to the LGS. Lock the case with the lock that comes with the gun, then go back and return the unused Walmart lock to Walmart.

I'll bring a lock, but I have a safe so the "Safe Affadavit" seems to work, even though I don't have the reciept for the darned safe!

If you are buying a handgun, you should re-read the info from the wiki littlejake posted.

BATF interpretation of Fedlaw doesn't let dealers accept the safe affidavit; it's still fine for CA.

[Califpatriot]

If you buy a used gun, say a Glock 19 in the case with the original lock -- that lock no longer qualifies. Why? Stupid laws. You have to have purchased an approved lock in the past 30 days.

[Librarian]

As far as I can see, that only applies if the firearm isn't accompanied with a FSD from the list

That's correct.

It's possible that the lock packed with the gun might not be on the FSD list. I'd ask the FFL to show that was true, myself.

But if you bring a lock yourself, then (c)(1) applies:

"(c) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.

And, as already mentioned, buy one at Walmart, present the lock and receipt when picking up the gun, return the lock on the way home works just fine - no state level law requires that one actually use the paperweight.

* Note * a few cities - Livermore comes to mind - do require using the paperweight before you can leave the shop.

[teflondog]

The majority of gun shops I've been to require you to buy a new CA approved lock with every handgun purchase. They check the receipt of the gun lock to make sure that it was purchased recently (so you can't reuse the same receipt) and they scan a copy of the receipt for their records.

[Den60]

The majority of gun shops I've been to require you to buy a new CA approved lock with every handgun purchase. They check the receipt of the gun lock to make sure that it was purchased recently (so you can't reuse the same receipt) and they scan a copy of the receipt for their records.

When buying my CZs I had to purchase a lock from Turners - the CZ one was not on the list. When I bought my GP-100 I don't recall having to buy an approved lock, nor when I purchased my M1A. I just put a Springfield MC Operator in jail and the clerk didn't tell me I needed to purchase a separate lock for that one. I will know in about 9 days.

[broadside]

None of you have a gun safe? First gun I understand, but after that, you should start thinking about a safe of some sort. Then just fill out the affidavit and be on your way.

[teflondog]

None of you have a gun safe? First gun I understand, but after that, you should start thinking about a safe of some sort. Then just fill out the affidavit and be on your way.

I've been to a few shops that didn't offer the safe affidavit and forced you to buy a new gun lock. This was the result of the shop owner's ignorance of the law as well as paranoia.

Some shops even require you to wait 11 days to pick up your gun.

[broadside]

I've been to a few shops that didn't offer the safe affidavit and forced you to buy a new gun lock. This was the result of the shop owner's ignorance of the law as well as paranoia.

Some shops even require you to wait 11 days to pick up your gun.

Print out https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdcertlist page and take it with you.