320 Owners - What Solution?

[Bart1]

Sig X5 Legion Ca compliant = external safety

[neouser]

I really think the issue really just comes down to the fact that Sig refuses to put a trigger safety on the pistol. And they've been doubling down on that beginning with the voluntary upgrade which added a disconnector, lighter trigger, and a second engagement on the sear, then later with a manual safety. They will literally do almost anything except put a trigger safety on the pistol. If the pistol requires trigger movement just past the wall to induce an uncommanded discharge, then stop the trigger from moving. Almost every striker fire pistol has incorporated a trigger safety, and most of them use lightweight plastic triggers. But I think that's really the extent of the "design flaw" in the P320. It was a really easy fix that Sig refused to do and, combined with generally negligent pistol handling and high speed gear that retains the firearms by applying pressure to the trigger area, it creates a situation where an uncommanded discharge could occur. The P320 is not inherently an unsafe design. But Sig made it into one by going against industry and refusing to incorporate the most commonly used mechanism to prevent this exact sort of thing from happening.

Out of curiosity, I've spent several days trying the same experiment on my P320 and I've been unable to get it to discharge, regardless of how gentle or rough I manipulate it, so there may be quality control issues as well. Mine was made around 2014, so it's an earlier pistol, before Sig started to mass produce them for military contracts. To be fair about it, I've also owned a P220 with feed issues and a Sig rifle that had an incorrectly sized gas port, but have a P229 and an SP2022 that have never had issues. These are all just additional data points and aren't definitive statements about Sig.

As of right now, I fully trust my P320. But others should do their due diligence and conduct their own tests to determine if their pistol is safe or not.

[Snoopy47]

As of right now, I fully trust my P320. But others should do their due diligence and conduct their own tests to determine if their pistol is safe or not.

I am a Quartermaster (Supply Officer) for the Army Reserves. I have four M18's in my care. Every month I have to validate our inventory for all weapons and read off every single serial number.

So............ this month.......... a few weeks ago I decided to fiddle around with those four M18's and try and duplicate what the internet is all in an uproar about.

I could NOT duplicate the failure.

To be honest I didn't try very hard.

What I did was cock the pistol, put a little pressure on the trigger, and then pressed down the slide, and even smacked it pretty hard.

I couldn't get the striker to fall. I tried messing with all four of them. And thankfully, nothing happened, and maybe I shouldn't have because I suppose I'd be obligated to report my findings to my command, which invariably would make my life difficult.

***************************
Now.....................

I did manipulate them in evry imaginable way I could think of, and in regard to the manual safeties.................... if I RODE that manual safety while pulling the trigger MUCH LESS pressure on the trigger would break and release the sear than I would have expected.

Now.................. as a competitive shooter, and Range Master, bla, bla, bla........... my riding the trigger is entirely OPERATOR ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!

So in my book this is NOT a product problem.

HOWEVEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! something I would recommend be issued in MASS to hundreds of thousands of service members and LEO's who are more or less not gun enthusiasts, and have a slip up on their manual of arms every once in a while.

I'm now aware to handle my unit's M18's as if I'm handling my 1911's I've tuned for competition. DO NOT IN ANYWAY touch that trigger until you are ready to fire, and for HEAVEN'S SAKE don't go anywhere near the manual safety and trigger at the same time if you don't intend to fire.

*********************

But what am I saying here.................basically what SIG is saying...................... don't touch the trigger..............

I'm saying the P320 is not a novice's gun.

The problem is compounded by the fact they are issued to novices by the hundreds of thousands.

[Scotty]

[QUOTE=neouser;n54652700]I really think the issue really just comes down to the fact that Sig refuses to put a trigger safety on the pistol. And they've been doubling down on that beginning with the voluntary upgrade which added a disconnector, lighter trigger, and a second engagement on the sear, then later with a manual safety. They will literally do almost anything except put a trigger safety on the pistol. If the pistol requires trigger movement just past the wall to induce an uncommanded discharge, then stop the trigger from moving. Almost every striker fire pistol has incorporated a trigger safety, and most of them use lightweight plastic triggers. /QUOTE]

Sig did make a trigger safety in the beginning, no one wanted it.

The trigger safety on other guns is solely to make them pass the drop test. Even if you put one on a P320 it won't stop an UD from occurring if something gets into the holster.

Many of the UD has been from officers getting out of their cars. But the incidences have a pattern. Only left handers have UD getting out of the driver's side and right handers out of passenger side. Dodge actually issued a service bulletin that moved the seat belt buckle resting position up higher on the belt.

[jarhead714]

Sig made a combat pistol for professionals then it was issued as a duty pistol to people who barely qualify as such.

[rsrocket1]

Sig made a combat pistol for professionals then it was issued as a duty pistol to people who barely qualify as such.

Combat pistol for professionals and firearm for military enlisted personnel is an oxymoron. This is not meant as an insult to service people.

To imply that the P320 is a specialized combat pistol then to issue it as mandatory equipment to all service personnel is crazy. It must be safe and effective for the user at the lowest common denominator for those who are required to carry it. That includes military and LE personnel. Civilians have the choice to carry it or not and own it or not.

I don't and never have carried my 320's and don't intend to. I've got other guns that I have more confidence in. In terms of compensation, I know I will never get anywhere near the investment I have in the guns (mostly stock) but I never intended to sell them to begin with. I will now never let others shoot the gun without direct supervision making sure it is never put down with a round in the chamber (simple enough good practice).

I am pretty sure Sig will double down and continue to hold the line that the gun is safe until they declare bankruptcy at which point owners will get to line up at the back of the line and recoup 10% or less of their original value. As for Cohen, if it is found that he was involved in "cheap at all costs", he should go to jail but I know that will never happen because he was "solely accountable to shareholder value" (the modern war crime plea of "just doing my duty as a soldier/general/national leader").

[Scotty]

I am pretty sure Sig will double down and continue to hold the line that the gun is safe

Of course they are going to hold the line, no one has proven it is not safe. No one has been able to put a gun into a duty holster and make the gun go off. Not even the opposing counsel in the lawsuits have been able to do this, or it would be a slam dunk case.

[mossy]

Sig made a combat pistol for professionals then it was issued as a duty pistol to people who barely qualify as such.

Omg thats hilarious. Sig took the p250 converted it to striker fire. Why do you think there is so much extra room in the slide? Then sold it to the military for dirt cheap. lol, combat pistol....The HK mark 23 is a combat pistol. The p320 is a extra cheap replacement for the beretta's.

[acaligunner]

Sig use to use ~ “ TO HELL AND BACK RELIABILITY “

Now Sig uses ~ “ Yeah whatever “ !!

[jarhead714]

Omg thats hilarious. Sig took the p250 converted it to striker fire. Why do you think there is so much extra room in the slide? Then sold it to the military for dirt cheap. lol, combat pistol....The HK mark 23 is a combat pistol. The p320 is an extra cheap replacement for the beretta's.

Have you pulled the trigger on a 250? It’s nothing like a 320. The Mk23 is a joke created by a bunch of jokers.

[mossy]

Have you pulled the trigger on a 250? It’s nothing like a 320

Yeah, I was never concerned about the p250 firing if I looked at it wrong. P320 on the other hand...........

[walmart_ar15]

Have you pulled the trigger on a 250? It’s nothing like a 320. The Mk23 is a joke created by a bunch of jokers.

bit off topic, but why is MK23 a joke?

[acaligunner]

What should be done, crease it gently, buy it flowers, maybe some potpourri for the restroom, keep it unloaded and hope the bish don’t blast your pee pee while you sleep 😳.

[jarhead714]

bit off topic, but why is MK23 a joke?

The joke is that the Mark 23 is what happens when you let someone get exactly what they wanted only for them to realize that what they wanted wasn’t what they needed.

[acaligunner]

The joke is that the Mark 23 is what happens when you let someone get exactly what they wanted only for them to realize that what they wanted wasn’t what they needed.

wasn’t it Larry Vickers that had input on the H&K USP program ~ did his advice also carry over to the H&K Mark 23 ?

If I remember right - those pistols could handle a lot of rounds through them ( something like 25,000 ) which was probably why they were so large. A bit overbuilt was the rumor.