Tanfoglio roster question

[oliveview]

Tanfoglio doesn't appear on the roster. But I was wondering whether they're listed under a different name? Is there an American company who is the domestic licensed distributor? Or are they simply too small a company to have availability here?

[Nor*Cal]

European American Armory is the importer. eaacorp.com

I just purchased the off-roster Witness Elite Limited in 9mm and Table Rock Arms is doing the SSE for me.

[morrcarr67]

Also, Armscor has some Tangfoglio guns that are on the roster.

[morrcarr67]

The Armscor models are known as the AP9 and MAPP1

[kurac]

try EAA Witness

[oliveview]

Thanks.

I've seen the adds in some of the gun rags by EAA. Although, they are all basically off-roster, so no matter what it looks like it would be a SSE situation.

I'm also curious about the Tanfoglio / CZ relationship. Clearly, the Tanfoglio guns are directly based on the CZ 75. Is it something like Beretta / Taurus? What's the deal there?

[redrex]

Ok, I've got everything you need to know on this topic I've been trying to chase one of these down for over a year now.

Background, CZ developed the style of this gun but now anybody can make one. Kind of like the 1911. Some companies make them stock and then some just use it as a jumping off point. The reason that they can do this is slightly different. CZ when they designed it, they were still behind the iron curtain and as such they did not bother to file for international patents. So Tanfoglio was looking for a new design but didn't want to start from scratch, well they just copied CZ and made it available to the west

Ok, so back to our current timeline. EAA used to be the importer but they dropped/lost that contract. Now it's Armscor, same people who make the Rock Island 1911. They make four guns on this platform. And make isn't exactly right, they get the parts in directly from Italy and they just assemble them. They four guns are the steel MAP1 and the Poly MAPP1. They offer both of these in full size, FS or midsize, MS. All four are CA approved.

HA! If only it were so easy. There is only one authorized distributor of these in the US,

Ellett Brothers.
Tel - 800-345-3751
They are the exclusive distributors of the MAP1 and MAPP1 pistols.
Product number 51655

But the last gotcha? They only sell them with hi cap mags! DOH! So you could buy one and have it shipped with no mag. Or you might be able to get someone to do a single shot conversion. Then the question is where go you get extra mags? I'm not sure if the EAA mags will work, I'm guessing that they should but not sure if I want to make a $500 gamble.

If you figure something out let me know. I've about given up on one of these. Now I'm looking for an aluminium frame 1911 midsize or compact in 9mm.

[redrex]

btw, the Jericho, aka the baby eagle uses the cz frame as well. I also just saw a used Action Arms 9mm. Apparently it's a swiss made cz platform. Nice gun for the price, $550. But I'm looking for a poly body, not steel. I find the all steel 9mm to be just to heavy.

Here is a link to the Armscor site. http://www.armscor.com.ph/tanfoglio.htm

Btw, all the information I got about Armscor came directly from them. I've been emailing back and forth between the US company and the "parent" corp in the Philippines.

[Nor*Cal]

EAA used to be the importer but they dropped/lost that contract. Now it's Armscor, same people who make the Rock Island 1911. They make four guns on this platform. And make isn't exactly right, they get the parts in directly from Italy and they just assemble them. They four guns are the steel MAP1 and the Poly MAPP1. They offer both of these in full size, FS or midsize, MS. All four are CA approved.

I do not think this is correct information. There has been talk about Tanfoglio and EAA parting ways but that has not happened. The year old Rumor is that a new "Italian Firearms Group" will be formed and import the Tanfoglio's current line-up and some new offerings that they are working on. That has not happened and EAA remains the only official US importer of the Tanfoglio firearms. And the only company producing the "Witness" line of firearms for the US market.

Also, I do not believe Armscor is an "importer" of the Tanfoglio's. I think they are producing clones out of the Philippines with some parts sourced directly from Tanfoglio and selling them to the US market as their own branded firearm. But again, I do not think they are an official Tanfoglio "importer". I could be wrong.

Tanfoglio currently lists 1 importer for Canada (FREEDOM VENTURES LTD) and 1 importer for the US (EUROPEAN AMERICAN ARMORY CORP). Here's the link to Tanfoglio's website that lists the current importers.

I also did lots of research before buying my Witness Elite Limited handgun a few weeks ago. Here's a copy of a post that I saved from my research.

This was posted on the CZ forum by member named jwc007:

Welcome the the Clone Side of CZForums and Congratulations on your Series 88 TZ75 and your older EAA Witness .45!

The Pre-Series 88 TZ75/TA90 (original series) were directly comparable to the original Pre-B CZ75. So much so, that some parts and Magazines will interchange. And yes, I have owned both at the same time. Both have now been traded off. The main differences at the time were Sights and Safeties. The original TZ75/TA90's used a Slide Mounted Hammer Drop Safety, while the CZ75 has always used a Frame Mounted Safety. Very early TZ75's/TA90's also had softer metallurgy. Later ones were much better. Notably the production just prior to the Series 88 pistols. Note that TZ75's were imported by FIE Corp and TA90's were imported by Excam Corp. Later on when both Companies went under, Employees from both would form EAA Corp and resume importation of Tanfoglio Pistols. About the same time, Springfield also began importing various Tanfoglio models as the P9, with some actually being finished in the USA.

It should also be noted that between the Pre-Series 88 and actual Series 88 Tanfoglio Pistols there were "Transitional" models with enough variation to drive a sane collector, nuts. These must be assessed/identified on their features and Serial Number range.

Series 88 TZ75/TA90's diverged dimensionally from the original TZ75/TA90 just as the CZ75B did from the Pre-B Series. I've read here that Series 88 Tanfoglio Pistols can use CZ75B/85B magazines, but have no direct experience of this. I do know that Series 88 Tanfoglio Pistols will use EAA Witness/Baby Eagle Magazines for the Series 88 and original Witness small frame. Very few, if any, parts will interchange between the Series 88, later Tanfoglio Pistols, and the CZ75B. EAA will have a stock of some parts for the early Tanfoglio Pistols.

Series 88 Tanfoglio Pistols and later Witnesses with older Serial Numbers prior to the EA Series are dimensionally compatible. EA Series and later Tanfoglio Pistols differ slightly dimensionally from all prior Series. Slides and Frames are typically not directly compatible, although it is possible to fit the Current Slides to the older Frames. It's a real big pain! I don't recommend it.

Swiss AT84 and Asai One Pro Pistols were based on the Series 88 and later Tanfoglio Pistols with magazines directly compatible per frame size. They were also made directly from castings from Tanfoglio with all finish work and barrels made by the Swiss. These were made/imported about the same time frame as the Springfield P9's. The Swiss designs have evolved into a different direction similar to current Sarsilmaz designs and rarely, if ever imported to the USA at this time.

IMI Baby Eagle and Jericho Pistols are based on the Series 88 and later Tanfoglio Pistols with magazines directly compatible per frame size. They are also made directly from castings from Tanfoglio with all finish work and barrels made by IMI/IWI.

Armalite AR24 Series Pistols are based on the original 9mm/.40 Tanfoglio Witness Frame, due to a contract Tanfoglio had with Sarsilmaz and the Turkish Government. My understanding is that they are no longer partnering with Sarsilmaz.

Armscor MAP Series Pistols are based on EA Series Tanfoglio/Witness 9mm/.40 Frame Pistols and are made/finished from Castings and Parts directly supplied by Tanfoglio. Baby Eagle/EAA Witness Magazines will work in these Pistols.

Current, 2005 and later, Witnesses are all built on the larger .45/10mm/.38 Super Frame. The original Tanfoglio 9mm/.40 Frame Pistols (MAP series) have been available from Armscor from time to time.

[dfletcher]

I have a TA90 and it uses CZ75 magazines. I bought it for $199.00 about 2 years back. It had sat in the old Castro Valley Gun Store for at least 6 years with an about $399.00 price tag on it because no one likes the 41AE. I added a 9mm barrel and spring (Numrich Arms) for $75.00 and got a deal on a EAA small frame 22 slide & barrel. For just under $400.00 I got a well made and reliable pistol that handles 22 lr, 9mm and 41 AE.

I was never a fan of the EAA or Tanfoglio but they seem very well made and obviously versatile.

[railroader]

The arsmscor pistols are small framed "witness" pistols assembled in the Philippines I think. EAA imports the large frame "witness pistols. There was a batch of EAA small frame witness pistols that came in that were called "witness classic". I had one for a while. Personally I like the basic cz pistol over the basic witness. The witness I had shot ok but I really didn't like the sights. The gun shot way right and the front sight was fat and machined as part of the slide. If you wanted different sights oh well. Now if you move up a notch I have heard really good things about witness match pistols. They cost a couple hundred more than the basic witness but they are a much nicer gun.

[Icypu]

Armscor MAP1 and MAPP1 are pretty cool. The new ones have frame rails. Also you can use Witness small frame caliber conversions and barrels. You can also take a Jericho slide and put it on a MAP1 frame.

[morrcarr67]

Ok, I've got everything you need to know on this topic I've been trying to chase one of these down for over a year now.

Background, CZ developed the style of this gun but now anybody can make one. Kind of like the 1911. Some companies make them stock and then some just use it as a jumping off point. The reason that they can do this is slightly different. CZ when they designed it, they were still behind the iron curtain and as such they did not bother to file for international patents. So Tanfoglio was looking for a new design but didn't want to start from scratch, well they just copied CZ and made it available to the west

Ok, so back to our current timeline. EAA used to be the importer but they dropped/lost that contract. Now it's Armscor, same people who make the Rock Island 1911. They make four guns on this platform. And make isn't exactly right, they get the parts in directly from Italy and they just assemble them. They four guns are the steel MAP1 and the Poly MAPP1. They offer both of these in full size, FS or midsize, MS. All four are CA approved.

HA! If only it were so easy. There is only one authorized distributor of these in the US,

Ellett Brothers.
Tel - 800-345-3751
They are the exclusive distributors of the MAP1 and MAPP1 pistols.
Product number 51655

But the last gotcha? They only sell them with hi cap mags! DOH! So you could buy one and have it shipped with no mag. Or you might be able to get someone to do a single shot conversion. Then the question is where go you get extra mags? I'm not sure if the EAA mags will work, I'm guessing that they should but not sure if I want to make a $500 gamble.

If you figure something out let me know. I've about given up on one of these. Now I'm looking for an aluminium frame 1911 midsize or compact in 9mm.

If you got all that from Armscor I would talk to them again.



They have their own wholesale division and sell guns to dealers only.

I also stopped by Armscor in NV and did a nice little write up on my trip

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=491179

If you read post #15 you will see that anyone who wants this gun should have their favorite LGS call Lisa @ Armscor in NV and she will sell it to them factory direct. And, yes they do have them in stock and yes they do have the 10 round magazines.

[redrex]

If you got all that from Armscor I would talk to them again.



They have their own wholesale division and sell guns to dealers only.

I also stopped by Armscor in NV and did a nice little write up on my trip

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=491179

If you read post #15 you will see that anyone who wants this gun should have their favorite LGS call Lisa @ Armscor in NV and she will sell it to them factory direct. And, yes they do have them in stock and yes they do have the 10 round magazines.

Well ok then! I've started things rolling on this. I pushed back on them and told them about the Advanced Tactical catalog and I'll let you know what I hear back from them.

[J.D.Allen]

If you're looking for a CZ clone, here's another option:

http://www.armalite.com/categories.aspx?Category=8076aa90-438f-4e72-8b21-ae77383b444c

Admittedly I have no idea if they are on the CA roster though