15 round mag illegal?

[billped]

Since you've already outed yourself on a public forum, I'd immediately disassemble the magazine into its component parts.

Why? If there is a crime, the OP is not the criminal. Plus ...

At no point did the OP state that he is in California, which is not relevant to this conversation anyway because ...

At no point did the OP state that his father is in California and it is his father who is in possession of the 15 rounders.

Me thinks we all assume too much.


Bill

[stitchnicklas]

[bwiese]

So Bill, what would be the wise thing for them to say?

"F-U, call my lawyer."

ANYTHING will be used against you.

[bwiese]

Since the statute of limitations for PC 12020 (a) is 3 years, wouldn't it be sufficient as a defense against charges relating to this law to be able to prove that any high cap magazine(s) was bought, transferred or manufactured more than 3 years ago? For example, a receipt showing that they were bought and imported in 2007?

Assuming that is true, that might work as a defense.

Lack of prosecution is not 100% free, though, as the mags still could be regarded as contraband and not returned.

But that also implies that you're undertaking the brilliant strategy of maintaining self-incriminatory documents during the 3 years which you are risking felony charges and loss of gun rights [because this is not a wobbler charge].

[bwiese]

Why? If there is a crime, the OP is not the criminal. Plus ...

Really?

There's really no such thing as participating in "half a crime". Transferring a hicap mag in CA outside one of the exempt paths is a crime.

PC 31/32 covers wide ground.

In other legal news, just because your taillights work and tags are current doesn't mean you can haul dead hookers in your car trunk.

At no point did the OP state that he is in California, which is not relevant to this conversation anyway because ...

At no point did the OP state that his father is in California and it is his father who is in possession of the 15 rounders.

Me thinks we all assume too much.

This is a CA-focused website generally about guns-in-CA and CA laws.

Most people here post /query due to the generally far more restrictive CA laws than the generally looser, in many respects, Fed laws. A rationally default answer here would be to "assume CA" so that generally CA-correct info is propagated here and others don't get into trouble.

[vintagearms]

What asshat told you this crap?

You wouldn't believe all the asshats here that think finding a magazine somewhere is legal. Hell, even one of the Mods here says the same thing. You would think they have an F-ing clue but sadly they dont.....

[heidad01]

I feel bad for the OP getting such a roasting and so many reminders of what he is supposed to do. I would have taken offense at that. Should not jugde people so quickly. It does not matter if his dad brought it home by mistake or if he found it on the side walk.
He just asked if a high cap mag is legal. The answer is not in Calif and other states that have such idiotic laws. Call your local gun store and they can tell you if it is or not in your state.
Cheers.

[gatesbox]

Really?

There's really no such thing as participating in "half a crime". Transferring a hicap mag in CA outside one of the exempt paths is a crime.

PC 31/32 covers wide ground.

In other legal news, just because your taillights work and tags are current doesn't mean you can haul dead hookers in your car trunk.




This is a CA-focused website generally about guns-in-CA and CA laws.

Most people here post /query due to the generally far more restrictive CA laws than the generally looser, in many respects, Fed laws. A rationally default answer here would be to "assume CA" so that generally CA-correct info is propagated here and others don't get into trouble.

Bill, I hold you in just about the highest regard as one of the CGF brain trust. No joke. But either the wiki which clearly highlights that possession in and of itself is not a crime, and that it is still the manufacture, importation and sale of mags which constitutes the felony is correct [OR] we need to edit the wiki and just call possession a felony.

These threads persist because even our trusted CGF sources don't seem to tow the same line. Let's figure it out, get it on the wiki, call it done, and all stick to the same talking points.

[quiet-wyatt]

In other legal news, just because your taillights work and tags are current doesn't mean you can haul dead hookers in your car trunk.

Best line ever!

[bwiese]

But either the wiki which clearly highlights that possession in and of itself is not a crime, and that it is still the manufacture, importation and sale of mags which constitutes the felony is correct [OR] we need to edit the wiki and just call possession a felony.

Pure possession itself is not a crime... but you're also dealing with theory vs. reality and often a metro area California Superior Court judge.

For example, possessing a hicap mag for a gun architecture that didn't exist before 2000 sure as hell Smells Very Bad and likely will go sideways - it just won't pass The Big Smell Test.

Acquiring a hicap mag by receving, finding it, etc. or whatever cockamamie damned situation than can be envisioned is still illegal.

Yeah, pure possession is not a crime, but we're really distinguishing a "not getting caught" situation vs. what actions are formally illegal. Remember that a magazine from an illegal transaction is regardable as contraband even if you're not convicted.

[If you're found with 5 kilos of coke and you STFU/lawyer up on arrest and say nothing, and after a variety of issues somehow charges are either dropped or you're found not guilty or arrest is voided or you're voted not guilty for some reason, you don't think you'll get your coke back, do you?]

"Undetected/unproven" and an elevated burden of proof does not mean a crime was not committed.

Also remember that younger members, especially Asians from 'respectful' upbringings don't do well when being questionied by a pack of aggressive LEOs. We're seeing some issues in Sacto LEO cases where youngsters panic and feel they have to open their yap.

Bottom line:

- if you have a hicap mag that you owned/acquired in CA before 2000, you're legal and exempted.

- possession of a hicap mag is generally intrinsically not probative to
illegal acquisition unless it were post-2000 design only, which 'smells real bad'. Nobody knows how this would go in court because these cases
have never gotten that far or up the appeals chain.

- idiots that say "OK I can get the magazine legally but the supplier is
violating the law" are just that. You can't have 'half a crime', and
PC 31 effectively says all parts of transaction are participants in the
illegal action.

- there will, in the future, when we can clear the decks, be a way,
not fixable by any updated legislation where a 'special path' to
acquire modern hicap mags will be exploitable. This special path
will increase the mag cost but will remove California control over
that specific instance of acquisition. [Mags acquired via such a
path, however, cannot be transferred to other Californians nor
can they be exported and reimported into CA since the pre-2000
travel in/out exemption is not applicable.]

[PEZHEAD265]

Possession isn't illegal California. The prosecutor would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you "manufactured or caused to be manufactured, imported into the state, kept for sale, or offered or exposed for sale, or gave, or lent, any large-capacity magazine" in order for you to be convicted of a felony. PC 12020. You don't have to prove anything.

You are a 100 percent right but you still have to pay for the lawyer if you are arressted.That may cost a few thousand dollers or so.

[Lumpia is sarap!®]

Nope, but stealing is.

[teflondog]

Since we're on the subject, does anyone know if there's any age requirement to owning handgun magazines? My father anticipated the ban and bought a bunch of magazines for me when I was only 15 years old. Are they legal if I acquired them as a minor?

[bwiese]

Since we're on the subject, does anyone know if there's any age requirement to owning handgun magazines? My father anticipated the ban and bought a bunch of magazines for me when I was only 15 years old. Are they legal if I acquired them as a minor?

Since, pre-2000, 15 yr olds could rationally buy them at Big5 or Joe's Sports Shop or whatever - without controls, they were just another 'bent sheet metal' items, I see no issues as long as the dad->son transfer actually occurred on or before 12/31/1999.

I have more concerns about a person young enough that he was, say, 3 yrs old in 1999. The burden of defense likely becomes much more elevated.

[RRichie09]

Nope, but stealing is.

Are you seriously calling the guy's dad a thief? Come on!

Dad went on a range trip, brought X magazines, came home with X magazines, then found out he had a 10+ mag. They are actively trying to return it, but can't seem to get a hold of the right person, so the OP started this thread to see what his dad's options are if they can't find the original owner.

Stuff like this happens, the OP's dad is trying to make it right and you call him a thief. I'm really surprised that you would say something like that. I've seen your other posts and you never really came off as a internet warrior.