PPT Situations...

[victoraguilar82]

So I am trying to find out if I can get an off roster gun. It is still available by the manufacturer.
Pistol
I am just trying to be sure there is ways around the roster issue before I make a decision on buying my next gun.

Situation 1:
So if I know someone who has never owned a gun and is moving to CA soon can they buy it in Nevada, where they live now, and PPT to me when they move to CA.

Situation 2:
Is I know someone who has a relative that lives outside of CA and the person I know is a CA resident can they do a family transfer then a PPT to me.

[shafferds]

Those examples are straw purchases. Find a shop in california that will do a single shot excemption. Where are you located?

[Oceanbob]

A better approach would be a Single Shot Exemption. (SSE) Perfectly legal and very common these days.

Read the STICKY at the top of the page.

Be well, Bob

[victoraguilar82]

I am in Los Angeles, can you do a SSE on a mini revolver? Link in the link i posted.

[zfields]

Those examples are straw purchases. Find a shop in california that will do a single shot excemption. Where are you located?

Straw purchase is buying for someone who is prohibited.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Situation 1:
So if I know someone who has never owned a gun and is moving to CA soon can they buy it in Nevada, where they live now, and PPT to me when they move to CA.

If your friend buys a gun before he moves, and after he moves, he decides he doesn't like the gun anymore and wants to PPT it to you, that is legal. If you guys agree, before he moves, that he is going to buy a gun for you because you cannot, that is a straw purchase and is illegal.

Situation 2:
Is I know someone who has a relative that lives outside of CA and the person I know is a CA resident can they do a family transfer then a PPT to me.

An intra-familiar transfer to a California resident can only be done by a California resident. If it crosses state lines, the Feds want it to go through an FFL.

So... if your friend's family member buys the gun, and moves to California to do an intrafamiliar transfer, he could simply PPT the gun to you instead... assuming of course he really did move to California and was not doing a straw purchase to circumvent the safe handgun list.

[victoraguilar82]

Wow, this is ridiculous. I just want to purchase a mini revolver and not have to pay twice the asking price of what it is actually sold for. Well, it seems I am out of luck because i don't think anyone does a SSE for a NAA Black Widow. Looks like i just have to wait for one to be sold as used and be the first in line to get it. Geesh, stupid roster!!!!!

[morrcarr67]

An intra-familiar transfer to a California resident can only be done by a California resident. If it crosses state lines, the Feds want it to go through an FFL.

Right and wrong.

If a firearm crosses state lines it does have to go through a FFl in the state of the receiver. That's where you are right.

Where you are wrong is on the Intra-familiar exemption. ALL intra-familiar transfers are exempt from the roster. If someone's Grandparent/Parent/Child living in a different state wanted to give their Grandparent/Parent/Child a non-rosted handgun all they need to do is to ship it to a CA FFL that understands the law as it is written with a note saying: "I; American Gun Owner, do here by give this wonderful handgun; serial number ###***, to my Grandparent/Parent/Child".

[victoraguilar82]

That gun isn't worth the hassle.

Yeah, looks like it will be a lot of trouble and money just to get one.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Right and wrong.

If a firearm crosses state lines it does have to go through a FFl in the state of the receiver. That's where you are right.

Where you are wrong is on the Intra-familiar exemption. ALL intra-familiar transfers are exempt from the roster. If someone's Grandparent/Parent/Child living in a different state wanted to give their Grandparent/Parent/Child a non-rosted handgun all they need to do is to ship it to a CA FFL that understands the law as it is written with a note saying: "I; American Gun Owner, do here by give this wonderful handgun; serial number ###***, to my Grandparent/Parent/Child".

But it still needs to go through an FFL... which is what I said... I never said that an interstate Itrafamiliar transfer was not exempt from the roster... I said it would have to be done through an FFL.


P.S.
In re-reading my original post, I see where the confusion came from. When referring to whether it could be done interstate, I was referring to a paperless intrafamiliary transfer.... I suppose he could do a papered intrafamiliary transfer through an FFL, and then PPT it, but if done so to circumvent the roster, it's still a straw purchase.

[12voltguy]

Wow, this is ridiculous. I just want to purchase a mini revolver and not have to pay twice the asking price of what it is actually sold for. Well, it seems I am out of luck because i don't think anyone does a SSE for a NAA Black Widow. Looks like i just have to wait for one to be sold as used and be the first in line to get it. Geesh, stupid roster!!!!!

a used one is still going to cost more, like twice as much
you think anyone is going to pay twice the $$ then sell it used for less?

look at the high $$$ LCPs in the used section

I got one SSE
yes it cost me near double the cost in FREE states

That is the way it is untill that roster is gone

[morrcarr67]

P.S.
In re-reading my original post, I see where the confusion came from. When referring to whether it could be done interstate, I was referring to a paperless intrafamiliary transfer.... I suppose he could do a papered intrafamiliary transfer through an FFL, and then PPT it, but if done so to circumvent the roster, it's still a straw purchase.

Correct and Correct

[Black Majik]

Aren't NAA Black Widow mini revolvers single action revolvers, which would make it exempt from the safe handgun roster?

[IVC]

Straw purchase is buying for someone who is prohibited.

Straw purchase is bying for someone else, regardless of whether they are prohibited.

The 4473 form question 11a:

Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. ...

Lying on the form is a felony. See the actual form at: http://www.atf.gov/forms/firearms/. It is a common misconception that it is okay to purchase for someone else - it is not. The intent alone makes it a straw purchase. Just because it cannot always be proven doesn't make it less of a felony.

[bigcalidave]

It's not a "straw purchase" quit tossing that phrase around like candy.

It's more of an issue violating some handgun importer rules for the person who makes the transfer, and it wouldn't be an issue if they didn't make a habit of it. So the friend gets the gun, then decides they don't like it. Happens every day. We don't have the "Thought Police" yet, and nobody can judge what someone will do with their purchase. So your friend doesn't "buy the gun to sell to you" he "buys the gun then decides to sell to you"... Get it?

IVC you are wrong. When you PPT the gun from your friend you become the buyer.