XD vs. Glock vs. HK USP

[Tarn_Helm]

Glock 21 for sure.

I am in the market for a plastic railed .45acp....

Normally being a 1911 guy, I am not sure which route to go. I have shot the XD45, Glock 21, HKUSP .45......Pricing aside, which gun do you guys find more reliable/accurate, and which one's (if not all) are finnicky with ammo, i.e, can I go from ball to hollow points without feed issues?

Get a Glock Model 21 for all the usual reasons, durable, simple, cheap, customizable, etc.

No thumb or grip "safety."

Accepts an aftermarket 10 MM barrel and Glock 10 MM mags, making it both a .45 ACP and 10 MM gun, depending on what you need it for--much cheaper than buying two guns, one .45 ACP and one 10 MM.

Glocks are ugly but are also cheap, simple, durable, versatile, reliable, and functional.

If you can stand the looks and the ergonomics (which don't bother me at all), go Glock.

Plus, you can put nightsights on it.

[Capt. Speirs]

HK USP fan till the end.

[ar15barrels]

HK USP fan till the end.

HK, because you suck and we hate you.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

[Army GI]

HK, because you suck and we hate you.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...d-we-hate-you/

our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

LOL

CRS1,

If you are a 1911 guy already, stick with that platform. Seriously. Your gonna be disappointed with a plastic gun. I have owned and carried both the Glock 21 and HK USP45 (sold both). I currently own a 5" XD. None of them feel or hold my attention like a 1911.

Quoted for absolute truth. If you're a 1911 man, you'll be fooling yourself trying to like a polymer framed pistol.

Don't get me wrong, the HK45 and HK USP 45 are great handguns. But .... they won't connect with you the way a 1911 will.

[cyamate]

Two cents from a person who testfires the majority of the firearms confiscated by a major US law enforcement agency.

A safe answer is that all three of the weapons are excellent choices etc. Granted they all are good examples of later generation designs that take advantage of modern manufacturing techniqes, materials, and modern design aids. But each design was designed with a different sales philosophy that dictated form and function.

Near and dear to my heart is the Glock family of handguns. Please note I was not always a Glock lover, in fact I began my career a dedicated 1911 fan, but employment and actual use have caused me to take notice of newer designs. Glock's advantages are their price (being the cheapest of the three in both firearm, magazines, parts, and aftermarket accessories), reliability, performance, and philosophy that each weapon is a family member in a weapon system, versus a single pistol out of a catologue.

Now each shooter is different and there will be many points of view contrary to the reliability and performance issue. Reliability wise many entities have done multiple tests of the different weapons systems, both formal and informal. The Glock family has the smallest number of moving parts, (even better since they are the cheapest, and easiest to obtain) compared to the Springfield and the HK design. Any reasonable person could pick up a copy of the Glock armorers manual crack it open and do well with their pistol. There is not a whole lot to it, and it is a design that requires very little oil.

Check out the torture test done by a member over on ARFCOM. It is impressive as hell. Sand, mud, water, salt water for weeks at a time, dragged from a truck, shot with a .22, dropped from a plane, buried for more than a year, and yet she still cleaned up and fired fine. They tried a USP and it choked on the sand. Mind you the tests were done slide open and closed. If it was handy I would post the links but it is late and I am tired.

The low bore axis, trigger reset concept put out by AR15 barrels is correct. The USP has a very high bore axis and this produces a recoil effect that drives the weapon off target at a higher rate than the Glock. The 21 series is known for its soft shooting and its return to point of aim. The Springield has a longer reset that is less effective at quick strings. Your finger will have to move more and at a faster rate.

Reliability on the Springfield is also an issue when it comes to the grip safety. Fire the weapon from an improvised position, or support side only and you may see a problem with the grip safety. Some people have problems just locking the slide back because as they turn the weapon in their hand to lock it back it disengages the grip safety. As for the USP it has a double/single firing system that I feel requires additional training. I have a lot of friends who tell me just thumb cock it, and the trigger is fine, but those in my line of work just don't operate like that. You must be proficient with all firing modes and the double action trigger is slower and less accurate than the Glock trigger. As for the safety/decocker if you carry it concealed it is something extra to snag, and god forbid it is like my Beretta and likes to slip onto safe. You have to train to sweep those levers to make sure they are always ready to go. You could replace the entire thing out for an LEM trigger but HK support really is lacking. They are getting better but they are a real pain. If any of those little parts break, or wear, your weapon is going to be down and having to deal with HKI just sucks. If the Glock breaks just go to Brownells and order three of the part that broke or is wearing out for twenty bucks plus shipping.

That all being said we still have price, and the weapons system concept. Price is easy. You can find used Glocks for around 400-450, easy depending on what you want. Every company makes a product for Glock, and they are generally stocked better than HK, and Springfield. The aftermarket piece you want for your Springfield may be made by a company and sold by Brownells, but it probably won't be kept in as large a supply as Glock parts. Magazines can be had for anywhere around 15 - a max of 30 dollars. And there were a ton of them sold before the ban so there is a higher likelyhood of having them. XD wasn't even around, and HK's had always been 50 dollars a pop. Holsters and aftermarket accessories also fall into Glocks favor. All of the local shops will stock Glock items because more agencies and private companies carry them. You will always be able to walk into Proforce and find a Glock holster, but try find an HK USP 45. Sometimes it can be a real pain.

Say you want to jump onto the mounted light fad. Every company makes their lights ready to go for the Glock rail, and most companies make holster for them as well. Good luck finding the USP light as well as the holster. Same with the XD light holster. If five officer's buy an xd with a light you can pretty much be sure they also bought all of the regions supply of holsters with light option.

As for family/weapon system concept, when you purchase a Glock firearm you are purchasing not a single firearm. You are buying into a weapons system. It works better with the smaller calibers of Glocks but the concept still applies. If you buy a Glock 21sf your magazines, light and holster will work with the compact Glock firearm. Your trigger system, slide lock, and magazine release system will be the same. Your aftermarket parts will also apply. If you bought into the smaller calibers you can use the same holster whether you start with a 9mm or move on to the 40sw. It is incredibly versatile. Departments only have to buy one style of holster between the 9's and the 40's.

If you get the bug, the other options can work, but for the price, purchase a Glock 21sf with the regular magazine release and Glock light rail. They have super strong finish, and will last many more rounds than most people can afford. If it breaks, call Glock. If you get bored you can sell it for near what you paid for it minus a hundred bucks or so, or if you are a law enforcement officer you could possibly use "Swap a Glock" to uptrade to a larger caliber or different model.

It's late. Good luck with your purchase.

[mqidwai]

HK hands down. as long as it fits your hand comfortabley. The HK has a sightly larger grip due to the double stack mag. But between the three HK hands down. It will shoot FMJ HP ReLoads target rounds no problem. It feeds more reliable than most 1911's.

[1919A4]

I have owned all three of them. Its really really a hard choice. If I had to choose I would say glock for its simplicity and reliability.

[devildog999]

XD!!!

[Gryff]

Reliability on the Springfield is also an issue when it comes to the grip safety. Fire the weapon from an improvised position, or support side only and you may see a problem with the grip safety. Some people have problems just locking the slide back because as they turn the weapon in their hand to lock it back it disengages the grip safety.

Cyamate had a good post, but I think that the quote above is completely incorrect (despite his professional experience). I've put 15,000-20,000 rounds downrange with my three XDs over the past several years. To date, I have never encountered any kind of malfunction relating to the grip safety whatsoever. Nor have I known anyone who had that type of failure.

As a matter of fact, I can't shoot 1911s reliably because my grip when I draw from a holster is so high that it actually pushes the grip safety on rather than deactivating it. Never had anything remotely like that happen with the XD, including a LOT of time shooting with my support-hand or strong-hand only.

I actually think the grip is superior to the Glock's not only because of the grip angle and the safety, but because I have never seen anyone limp-wrist an XD into a failure to fire, while I have seen it all the time with Glocks. True, it isn't too much of a problem once you know how to grip a Glock, but it can still cause a fatal problem if you are forced, as Cyamate stated, to "(f)ire the weapon from an improvised position" (ironic since he used this as a point against the XD).

It is true that a noob can initially have a problem locking the slide back as Cyamate mentioned, but that is only because you have to compress the grip safety to be able to pull the slide back. This is a noob-only problem and is not an issue once you know about it.

Glocks win on the parts issue and a shorter factory trigger reset, but I think they loose on pointability, grip ergonomics, limp-wristing problem, and kaboom issues. Still good guns, but I easily prefer the XD over them.

[ar15barrels]

It is true that a noob can initially have a problem locking the slide back as Cyamate mentioned, but that is only because you have to compress the grip safety to be able to pull the slide back. This is a noob-only problem and is not an issue once you know about it.

The bold statement also applies to limp wristing of glocks.
I shoot mine from many "improvised" positions and never run into a problem.