Capacity vs. stopping power.

[repubconserv]

This is a caliber war question packaged differently. When it comes to modern ammo, the differences in handgun caliber performance is minimal. Do a search on the forum. Coupled with the dismal track record of handguns vs rifle performance its easy to see why pistols are NOT considered primary weapon systems.

With the greater possibility of multiple threats, capacity trumps 'stopping power', I term I wouldn't use when discussing handguns.

Glock 19 with legal pr-ban magazine 15 + G17 reload 16 (loaded one down). And you have 31. How many magazines would you need with the P220?

.....pause for caliber war to start by non-SMEs.

Comprosmise

[CK_32]

Comprosmise

If only anything on that was legal hahaha

[repubconserv]

If only anything on that was legal hahaha

you can legally have these in ca, it is considered an AOW (Any other weapon)

All you need is an NFA trust set up, and a tax stamp... or something like that

[paul0660]

My thought is that if you cannot get it done in 10 (or 8 big ones) you need more practice.

As noted before, LEO's are usually surprised at how many rounds they shoot when they have to. Because of that, it is apparent to me that training gets trumped by adrenalin when push comes to shove. More is better.

[NSR500]

In California I'll take 10x45acp vs 10x9mm.

[Oceanbob]

If only anything on that was legal hahaha

You can get one exactly like that over at OC ARMORY in Laguna Hills. Talk to MIKE..he's one of the best and very knowledgeable...

[bcj128]

I would say whichever you shoot best and with most accuracy. I carry a Glock 35 into harms way but would be OK with the Glock 34 in 9mm as well. That said, I shoot both equally well and would choose the 9mm over the .40 if I shot the 9 better.

I know lots of people love the .45. It's a great round if you have to use FMJ, but with modern ammo the margin narrows considerably.

[Oceanbob]

I would say whichever you shoot best and with most accuracy. I carry a Glock 35 into harms way but would be OK with the Glock 34 in 9mm as well. That said, I shoot both equally well and would choose the 9mm over the .40 if I shot the 9 better.

I know lots of people love the .45. It's a great round if you have to use FMJ, but with modern ammo the margin narrows considerably.

A Glock 35 is a fantastic powerful weapon. Running with 15 round mags you can really command a situation. 15+1 of Corbon .40 makes good sense.

Love mine.

[elSquid]

http://proarmspodcast.com/2010/05/23/052-interview-with-bob-stasch-of-the-chicago-police-department/

http://media.blubrry.com/proarms/content.blubrry.com/proarms/052.mp3

Interview with a Chicago PD tac officer who has been in 14 gunfights.

The interview starts about 3 minutes in. 7 minutes in is the story of ~140lb bad guy - not on drugs - not being stopped by a bunch of center mass hits: 6 from a 45Colt, 5 38Spls, and a couple of 44Magnums...

The whole thing is worth a listen.

-- Michael

[MossbergMan]

Placement, Placement, Placement. Regardless of caliber. capacity is King. Statisics are mis-leading and you can minipulate them to say whatever you want so although the statisics say something like the average gunfight is 3 rounds fired in 3 to 4 seconds....I'd rather be loaded with 11 to 17 rounds of 9mm/.40WSW v. 8 or 9 (or less) .45acp.
Although concealment issues raise it's ugly head when carrying a full size handgun and you may have to compromise size and caliber, so we are back to....Placement.
More ammo is better, unless you catch on fire or fall in water over your head :-)

[Baga]

I own, possess and use normal magazines (now called Hi Capacity).. So I am not inclined to down-grade my firepower options.

ASP.....stands for Accuracy, Speed and Power....

Having a lot of ammo to throw at a problem is moot unless you're accurate. So to me, a weapon that you can shoot well and on target is my first priority.

Then do it fast. And have the power (foot pounds of energy and diameter) to take care of whatever beast is bothering you.

Shooting 9MM with precision will do the job. Much better than a wheel gun loaded with .44 magnum and too much recoil to stay on target. lol.

Facing multiple threats is very uncommon and really the stuff of a good action movie.

One scenario that is possible (here in La La land) would be multiple threats riding around in a single car. A several car loads of gang members are at this very minute cruising thru some areas of the Southland. This is reality.

Another reality is a 9MM isn't that effective against car doors or some windshields. Cops working Metro Division carry Glocks in .40 caliber with high performance ammo that will push thru a car door or windshield. They also carry AR Carbines and other weapons designed for fast shooting on a moving target.

For me, a GLOCK 29 in 10MM loaded with a normal 15 round magazine with an extension (20 rounds available) Double-Tap 200 grain hunting ammo and an extended barrel for a little more speed....and I'am good. (Or a Glock 20 with the same options).

Be well, Bob

I don't think you have enought mags ...Awesome

[redcliff]

http://proarmspodcast.com/2010/05/23...ce-department/

http://media.blubrry.com/proarms/content.blubrry.com/proarms/052.mp3

Interview with a Chicago PD tac officer who has been in 14 gunfights.

The interview starts about 3 minutes in. 7 minutes in is the story of ~140lb bad guy - not on drugs - not being stopped by a bunch of center mass hits: 6 from a 45Colt, 5 38Spls, and a couple of 44Magnums...

The whole thing is worth a listen.

-- Michael

I found that an interesting podcast, I'd heard it before.

I also like Chuck Taylor's perspective on the stopping power debate: http://www.chucktayloramericansmalla...pingpower.html

[itsallgood]

I recently upgraded from a G17 with two original (bought with the gun) Hi cap mags to a Kimber Warrior II. I have one 8 round wilson and two ten round chip Mccormick mags. The gun has a tactical light on it. With this set up, I do not feel outgunned in my home. In addition, I shoot the kimber just as well as the glock ( probably due to the extra weight). Just my opiion.

[Press Check]

http://proarmspodcast.com/2010/05/23...ce-department/

http://media.blubrry.com/proarms/content.blubrry.com/proarms/052.mp3

Interview with a Chicago PD tac officer who has been in 14 gunfights.

The interview starts about 3 minutes in. 7 minutes in is the story of ~140lb bad guy - not on drugs - not being stopped by a bunch of center mass hits: 6 from a 45Colt, 5 38Spls, and a couple of 44Magnums...

The whole thing is worth a listen.

-- Michael

Definitely worth the listen.

Since the body will in fact have a profound reaction to being shot in different areas, I've never been a big proponent of multiple center mass shots. A shot to the arm may disarm an attacker, a shot to the knee may immobilize an attacker, and so on.

It is not uncommon to hear about attackers that are able to persist in fighting after sustaining a chest wound. I'm not suggesting specific targeting of limbs, but trying to group shots into the upper torso may not always prove to be a viable option.

[elSquid]

It is not uncommon to hear about attackers that are able to persist in fighting after sustaining a chest wound. I'm not suggesting specific targeting of limbs, but trying to group shots into the upper torso may not always prove to be a viable option.

Depends on the tool...



...the fun starts ~50 seconds into the video.



-- Michael