Stopping Power - a different perspective

[pyromensch]

Sitting here at my desk on my luch hour it just dawned on me there is a stat missing.

That being what handgun caliber was used the most in the shootings?

The total amount of shootings in the writers post was exactly 1700. By percentage here are the stats on frequency of use by caliber out of the shootings:

.25 - 4%
.22 - 9%
.32 - 1.5%
.380 - 12%
9mm - 27%
.357 - 6%
.40 - 11%
.45 - 12%
.44 - 1.5%
Rifle - 7%
Shotgun 9%

If my math is correct looks like 9mm was used in the shootings 2x more than any other caliber. They must like the 9 in Ohio!

no, it's probably just the high cap mags, and the spray and pray effect...BTW you left 38 spl off the list

[pyromensch]

Well, now I feel better about buying an AR pistol best of both worlds!

now to find a conceal holster for it.

[bphage]

Does anyone know if the person who did this "study" released the original data; there are a heck of a lot of problems with this study. (in short you can't statistically draw any conclusions as it sits)

This seems to be an attempt to do a literature review or even a meta-analysis which is very very complex to do statistaically and if the raw data is available - and includes the citation to all the articles for verification - it would allow a comprehensive analysis that would be really really interesting... I would be more than happy to spend some of my time working on this analysis.

My guess is that there is no hope for this but doesn't hurt to ask

[glock7]

good reading. definitely center of mass, keep shooting till threat is down. and hope we get standard capacity mags in this communist state soon

[Jack L]

I appreciate the work that this gentleman has done, but there's more I want to know.

What kind of ammunition was involved in each fatal shooting? Modern, high quality JHPs show significantly better performance than older JHPs or ball. Who was doing the shooting in each case (civilian or LEO)? At what kind of distances?

For example, .357 SIG looks good according to those numbers, but it's an unusual round, so perhaps only particularly experienced operators using top quality JHPs were behind the trigger on those weapons?

Interesting. Most of us have said shot placement is why we practice a lot.

The way this is presented, it's not really all that scientific. What clothes were the bad guys wearing? How far were they from the good guy, etc.

[missiontrails]

I dont think there ever will be a perfect study as no human being will ever volunteer to be a test subject on the subject matter

Ya, it's kind of hard to interview a slab of ballistic gelatin after it's all over

[RGERBER]

I carry a Kahr P9, I also have on my CCW a Glock 23 .40 and a Glock 27 .40 – the reason I carry the P9 is weight and capacity.
I found myself leaving the bigger heavier guns at home, - the reason I don’t have a PM9 is accuracy, I am getting better but it is harder to get these light weight small guns on target, I told myself I cannot get a smaller PM9 until I can shoot the P9 as good as the G23 ( at 7yds. )


In a nut shell the best round is one you have on you and can shoot accurately.
and thank you for your efforts and your post

[MrExel17]

Great post, thanks for sharing! You were right it was a long read but very helpful!

[SixPointEight]

There might be some inaccuracies with the calculatedIf that is the case, that assumes everyone shot was incapacitated.
This obviously cannot be the case, since there are numbers for "One-Shot-Stop" and also "% of people who were not incapacitated".

So folks, please take the Average Number of rounds with a grain of salt.

That being said, it was a cool read. I find the ideas really interesting on how to track stopping power. The coolest statistic that stood out to me for HD were:

[Lapietra]

Or not one of the 1700 shootings involved a 10mm thus supporting the suspicion that a 10mm shooting is as elusive as mythical creatures like bigfoot, the lockness monster and the tooth fairy.

[Jack L]

Great gun, P9, light and thin, sinllge stancked ammo, and I agree about barrel length.

[Lapietra]

Does anyone know if the person who did this "study" released the original data; there are a heck of a lot of problems with this study. (in short you can't statistically draw any conclusions as it sits)

This seems to be an attempt to do a literature review or even a meta-analysis which is very very complex to do statistaically and if the raw data is available - and includes the citation to all the articles for verification - it would allow a comprehensive analysis that would be really really interesting... I would be more than happy to spend some of my time working on this analysis.

My guess is that there is no hope for this but doesn't hurt to ask

The authors name and the name of the firearms training co. he works with are in the original post. I suppose you could look him up that way.

[gobi fish]

it was almost a convincing study but then the op didnt really report what and where his resources were from and if they were peer reviewed studies. Unfortunatly we cannot believe a single thing typed and this is just another made up internet forums study which is actually fairly dangerous to use and quote (as many people will indeed take this as proof and fact).

That is not to say I dont agree that any bullet will do the job and I wouldnt wanna get shot with anything (hell if a guy was waving around a bb gun I'd run if he was intent on shooting me and there was a possiblity of me getitng away without a bb in me). That and shot placement is king and that it doesnt take a whole lot of convincing that a rifle or a shotgun will do much more damage then a handgun.


when in doubt, put at least 1 in the chest and 2 in the head.

[vmwerks]

Put 1 in the head and get charged with murder. Center of mass and only state that you were intent was to stop, not kill.

There's a Pharmacist serving a life sentence that would agree.

[Lapietra]

Gobi fish - the writer did report his resources:

"Over a 10-year period, I kept track of stopping power results from every shooting I could find. I talked to the participants of gunfights, read police reports, attended autopsies, and scoured the newspapers, magazines, and Internet for any reliable accounts of what happened to the human body when it was shot."

The post then tells us that he was a police officer with 16 years on duty and a trainer.