Swartz Safty

[Cyc Wid It]

Yeah yeah I meant Yam not Ham, but you get my drift. And you're joking if you think LEA always put reliability at the top of the list. Usually the priority has something more to do with dollars and cents. You're convinced that LAPD SWAT uses a stock Kimber?

[Cuda440]

We have over 80,000 members on this forum, and its safe to assume that a good portion of them own, have owned, or have shot Kimbers with the Schwartz safety.

Yet, the only time I have ever heard of a schwartz timing issue is when Mr. Yam speculates on it's possibility.

Due to the sheer numbers of gunners and Kimbers out there, if it was at all common, wouldn't we hear some actual stories from experience? Not just speculations of possibilities?

P.S. The schwartz pin only sticks up about 1/32" when the grip safety is fully depressed. The firing pin block sticks out of the slide close to 1/8". There is no way that the pin will push up in to the block's hole and jam the slide.

Detail strip a kimber, look at the schwartz mechanism, and you will see that it is extremely mechanically simple, and there would need to be major parts wear before it became unreliable. When was the last time you actually saw someone wear out a grip safety or thumb safety?

[DArBad]

LAPD SWAT considered 5 other brands, Kimber being one of them. And according to printed materials, " Stock " kimbers were used, Swartz safety and all. And RELIABLITY was the paramount parameter for choosing.

It was the basic Kimber Custom II that was used in the test. later on, LAPD requested additional features: front strap checkering and Meprolight night sights----which later became the TLE II.

It was even stated that that the guns sent to the LAPD were nothing special, just off the shelf models.

So, to the OP, if you are contemplating buying a Kimber, buy so with confidence. The Swartz safety issue is a non issue.

Of course, if after buying you prefer to have it taken out, that is your prerogative, though it is not a necessity if only to effect reliability.

Good Luck!

[perpetual otter]

Anyone have any stories from here or other boards about this "safety" failing? Links would be nice.

[BillPear]

Anyone that follows LA politics know that police officers SWAT included are highly discouraged from using a firearm, you wil be treated as a criminal and not be supported by your "superiors". Just look at last months standofft were they used a remote control wrecking device to destroy the suspects home with no concern for neighboring property!

That being said I just avoid them as unnescary, plenty of great choices without them

[Cyc Wid It]

For the sake of argument: how many people have fired tens of thousands of rounds through their Kimbers? Some people boast about putting a few thousand through their gun... which is not even long enough to change springs. How many people have seen hundreds of Kimbers, more than just their own? YMMV, but I don't put much in either stock in positive or negative individual experiences.

[Tom Slick]

If it were a "Browning safety" it would be the best safety design ever.

[BDH]

You also have to keep in mind, that Kimber didn't invent the Swartz safety. It came along many years ago. Kimber may be doing a good job with tolerances and parts, but it still comes down to extra parts, that if at opposite ends of the tolerance scale, could fail. I'd rather have my 1911s a bit more simple.
Bruce

[fullspeed1]

Once again, It's a solution to a non-existent problem. But not even close to a deal breaker. Come on people, Lets see some proof of the Schwartz safety failing. Enough of the ERRORnet hear say. Just like any hobby, it's all about who's junk is bigger......

[DArBad]

I have not seen any massive failures of the Swartz safety whether in Kimber or SW guns. I've been following closely this debate for many years, there are a " relatively " few incident where they did fail, but in total the Swartz and the Series 80 parts are quite dependable.

Of course, we would all prefer to have a 1911 setup similar to the originals, BUT, living as we do in California and some form of safety is mandated by law, our only option when buying new is either the Swartz safety or the Series 80s. I''ve had Colts before and know for a fact that the Series 80s also can give their own issues.

[Kruzr]

For the sake of argument: how many people have fired tens of thousands of rounds through their Kimbers? Some people boast about putting a few thousand through their gun... which is not even long enough to change springs. How many people have seen hundreds of Kimbers, more than just their own? YMMV, but I don't put much in either stock in positive or negative individual experiences.

How about over 90K and another one with over 70K and another one with over 60K? The range rental Kimbers at TFL have never broken a Swartz safety.

My Stainless Target II has about 47K down it. Next to my Baers, it is the most accurate 1911 I own (out of 12.)

BTW, the LAPD SIS guns also have the Swartz safety. They chose it since LAPD SWAT didn't have any problems with it.

[Old4eyes]

As with anything mechanical, failures will occur. I have two Smith & Wesson with their version of the Swartz safety. Could there be a problem sometime, yes. Have I experienced it, no. Have others, yes a few. Do I lose sleep over it, no.

It should be noted that perhaps Smith saw a problem or decided that for marketing purposes, the Swartz is a liability. Their new line (which won't be on the dreaded list) has a titanium firing pin and eliminated the Swartz.

[fullspeed1]

How about over 90K and another one with over 70K and another one with over 60K? The range rental Kimbers at TFL have never broken a Swartz safety.

My Stainless Target II has about 47K down it. Next to my Baers, it is the most accurate 1911 I own (out of 12.)

BTW, the LAPD SIS guns also have the Swartz safety. They chose it since LAPD SWAT didn't have any problems with it.

Thanks Kruzr, I was gonna link some of your posts from 1911Forum for those who are a influenced by internet nonsense. And I can bet, That in the right hands, My Custom II is guaranteed to shoot 1.5"......

[DArBad]

Thanks for the info. I have a Kimber Custom II and love it. Never had a problem and have put a couple thousand rounds threw it.

That's good to know nevil. Your experience is the norm, borne by tens of thousands of 1911 buyers. That is one main reason why Kimbers sells the most 1911 in the market. Enjoy

[Bullwinkle]

Of all the firing pin safety mechanisms on the market, the original Colt Series 80 - in a Colt - is the most reliable of them all.

So putting Swartz aside for the moment... why does Mr. Yam think the Series 80 safety in a Colt is any better than the Series 80 safety in another brand of 1911? That's kind of where I have to call "shenanigans"... but I'm willing to learn if there's a legit reasoning here. I'd think it all boils down to each manufacturer's design specs and tolerances as to which (if any) are more problematic or better than the others.