Why do you shoot 9mm?

[DanDaDude102]

I cant wait till they invent ray guns so this debate will finally be over

[ianS]

Just curious as to why so many people still shoot 9mm, even those who carry on/off duty use 9mm? with the option of carrying the 40 cal, and almost as many rounds, one would think the stopping power would come into play? is it a cost issue? handle the recoil better?

Because I'm not delusional into believing going to a .40 is gonna really make that much of a difference. You really should read this and learn. Its written by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Instead of some vague understanding of "more powerful" and "stopping power". http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

[hkdad]

why not? i shoot all calibers if i can. mostly 9mm and .45acp

[Patchbunny]

I cant wait till they invent ray guns so this debate will finally be over

"What do you mean you use a phase plasma rifle in the 30 watt range? It's all about the 40 watt range, SON."

[IrishPirate]

i know why the 40 was developed. the 10mm was indeed too powerful. do you know why the 10mm was developed? famous fbi shootout where the gunmen had be hit multiple times by 38 and 9MM rounds and continued shooting/wounding officers...SON. so yes, it was in part because the 9mm was too WEAK...son. don't go blabbing like your mr. know it all either....SON. someone must have pissed in your wheaties this morning because this was not where i intended this thread to go.

it's exactly where you intended it to go....it's the only place ".40 has more stopping power" ever does go. The facts support my claims. Mall Ninjas on the internet support yours. BTW, the 10mm was developed in 1983, 3 years before the 1986 miami shootout which lead the FBI to switch ammo....and implement new shooting tactics to get BETTER SHOT PLACEMENT! So once again, get your facts straight. And keep calling me son if it makes your internet pee pee bigger....i was trying to make it obvious that you were being disrespectful by calling me son...guess that was over you're head

[DannyZRC]

i know why the 40 was developed. the 10mm was indeed too powerful. do you know why the 10mm was developed? famous fbi shootout where the gunmen had be hit multiple times by 38 and 9MM rounds and continued shooting/wounding officers...SON. so yes, it was in part because the 9mm was too WEAK...son. don't go blabbing like your mr. know it all either....SON. someone must have pissed in your wheaties this morning because this was not where i intended this thread to go.

You do realize that the 10mm predates the FBI shootout?

are you also aware that the en vogue handgun cartridges of that era prized expansion over everything? do you know the expansion characteristics of 9mm silvertips used in the shootout? do you know anything about any of the individual wounds sustained by the assailants?

if all you know about handgun wounding is that one cartridge has a larger unfired diameter and more gunpowder than another cartridge, then you don't know anything about handgun wounding, son.

[G60]

If you research it very well

The reason I included that caveat in my post is because I correctly assumed you have done zero research into the topic at hand besides hearing 'everybody's switching over to it'

[JacobSmith]

Kinetic Energy=(1/2)mass x velocity^2

I do honestly think that if you have two bullets that are the same shape, but one is going twice the speed of another, but the other's mass was twice that of the fast moving projectile, the one with twice the speed will be MUCH more powerful. The more joules (Kinetic Energy), the better.

That's why the .40 S&W dominates the 9mm, because it nearly goes the same speed as the 9mm, but it's mass is enough to compensate for the huge difference in power that the variable- velocity- has. I guess if you find the right balance between velocity and mass that optimizes your bullet energy, and you weigh out price, availability, and recoil, you can find your answer pretty easily. It's whatever is most important to you.

It did surprise me when I saw how much more important speed is when it comes to increasing kinetic energy than mass. But if the bullet zips right through the person, missing many of his organs that you are hoping will be mutilated, not all of the energy will be transferred to his flesh, so that's why the hollow points, etc. are fairly important with stopping power.

[G60]

Your claim, prove it.

Also, if you truly wish to become informed on the topic: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

there are links for further reading included in that post, DocGKR (the linked post's author) is Dr. Gary K. Roberts, and he is one of the foremost ballistic wounding experts on the planet.

The entire terminal ballistics forum on m4carbine is a great resource, as is anything posted by DocGKR.

[Ieyasu]

Because I'm not delusional into believing going to a .40 is gonna really make that much of a difference. You really should read this and learn. Its written by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Instead of some vague understanding of "more powerful" and "stopping power". http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

Well, that's twice the link has been posted and the OP has yet to respond.

I formerly used .45 ACP, but didn't see the point after reading links such as the above.

Originally Posted by DannyZRC
Largest police department in the world issues 9mm (124gr Speer Gold Dot 9mm +P)
OP's response:
im sure a FEW still do, but a MAJORITY issue 40 cal

That the majority do 'X' is not proof of much anything. Often, organizations/companies will do 'X' simply because other entities have done it (herd mentality/everybody is doing it, etc.)

[cali_armz]

9mm is cheap, about half the price of .45acp

thats the only reason i prefer to take my g19 to the range over my g30

[IrishPirate]

Kinetic Energy=(1/2)mass x velocity^2

I do honestly think that if you have two bullets that are the same shape, but one is going twice the speed of another, but the other's mass was twice that of the fast moving projectile, the one with twice the speed will be MUCH more powerful. The more joules (Kinetic Energy), the better.

That's why the .40 S&W dominates the 9mm, because it nearly goes the same speed as the 9mm, but it's mass is enough to compensate for the huge difference in power that the variable- velocity- has. I guess if you find the right balance between velocity and mass that optimizes your bullet energy, and you weigh out price, availability, and recoil, you can find your answer pretty easily. It's whatever is most important to you.

It did surprise me when I saw how much more important speed is when it comes to increasing kinetic energy than mass. But if the bullet zips right through the person, missing many of his organs that you are hoping will be mutilated, not all of the energy will be transferred to his flesh, so that's why the hollow points, etc. are fairly important with stopping power.

you do realize how contradictory that is right? same speed, different mass, but speed is what counts? 9mm is faster, so by your logic, 9mm should be more "powerful".

9mm hollow points and .40 hollow points penetrate nearly the same.

I think what you were trying to say is that .40 transfers more energy to the target. Yes, we all know and agree with that....but the difference is minimal as both pack more than enough energy to kill a human. It's not like the bigger the bullet gets, the bigger the "kill zone" gets. You can't miss by 3 inches just because your bullet is bigger and expect the same results.

SHOT PLACEMENT IS WHAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR KNOCK DOWN POWER.

[Ieyasu]

That's why the .40 S&W dominates the 9mm...

The evidence doesn't seem to back your claim.

From the contents of the link posted above: "When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:"

[Josh3239]

You seem to be taking the same position that has been taken so many times by the old school shooters, more dead is better. Just like when AWs first got developed and the government wanted to measure the best cartridge between the 308, 5.56mm and the 7.62x30 so they shot at cadaver heads and counted the amount of skull fragments. At the end of the day, the skull blew up. Who cares?

Btw, my primary home defense handgun is a Glock fotay! and I have 1 x 9mm handgun and 1 x 45.

im sure a FEW still do, but a MAJORITY issue 40 cal

According to a Newsweek article from 2007, 9mm was the majority issue then. I've haven't seen any evidence that it has changed.

Not in the world.

Majority of LE agencies in the USA have adopted .40S&W.

But, worldwide the 9x19mm is still the top dog.

Not to mention 9mm is the most popular sidearm cartridge for militarys around the globe. Considering that it was first adopted by a Western military over 100 years ago is a testiment to just how effective the 9mm truly is.

i wasn't talking about hitting the aorta. in a self defense situation, do you reall think youre going to have time to stop and aim for a vital organ, artery, etc? the answer is simply NO...and im not bagging on it at all. this is the internet, you can't read tone son. im just saying the 40 cal wasn't developed for no reason. it IS 'ballistically' better than the 9mm.

So now we are going from the 9mm isn't strong enough to you cannot shoot accurately if you are forced to draw? If you cannot shoot accurately at a critical location that why bother with a .40? For that matter why even carry, chances are if you cannot aim, you'll just make the situation worse.

1) If you don't aim you aren't going to hit your target. If your gonna aim, you should just as well aim for a critical location.

2) In Iraq our troops were getting so many headshots there were investigations into illegal executions, all of those headshots were not found to be taken at close range. Yes you can aim during a war when there are large amounts of people with machine guns, grenades, artillery, aircraft and tanks. Our troops are trained to be marksmen, but shooting isn't fighting and rangetime doesn't mimic war.

so yes, it was in part because the 9mm was too WEAK...son. don't go blabbing like your mr. know it all either....SON. someone must have pissed in your wheaties this morning because this was not where i intended this thread to go.

Interesting, because the 9mm wasn't too weak for the Germans in WW1 and WW2 in their Lugers, C93, P38 and MP40s. It wasn't to weak for the British in their Stens and Sterlings. It wasn't too weak for the world in the MP5. It wasn't too weak for the Israelis nor the Secret Service in the Uzis. It isn't too weak for militaries and police who carry 9mm Sigs, Glocks, and Berettas (amongst others).

[djeddiebear]

only got a g23 because my friend was selling it for so cheap. still wanting my g19, hopefully i can find an OD one. it's cheaper and the recoil is a lot better.