S&W M&P 9mm 5 Inch

[NorCal Einstein]

What I've learned today:

I can blame the pistol for my abysmal shooting at 25 yards!

[Shenaniguns]

More relevant testing:

M&P9: Post-Test Accuracy Check #2checked the accuracy The results were nothing short of spectacular.



As you can see in the photo (R), the pistol is still capable of outstanding 25 yard accuracy.
That is just 0.11″ off from the Week 26 (52,900 rounds) test, which was the last time we thoroughly cleaned the pistol. That tenth of an inch could easily be the result of just one bad (shooter induced) shot out of the entire series. For all intents and purposes, this gun is literally just as accurate as it was before the slide crack.
Federal 124gr +p HST

• week 1: 1.46″
• week 6: 2.05″
• week 10: 1.69″
• week 17: 1.99″
• week 22: 1.92″ (after thorough cleaning)
• Post-Test Accuracy Check #1: 2.88″ (dirty gun)
• Post-Test Accuracy Check #2: 1.83″ (clean gun)

PLEASE NOTE: Neither pistol-training.com nor Smith & Wesson recommend or condone firing a pistol with known broken components. This test was performed by a shooter with extensive training and experience in firearms test protocols. Do not try this at home. If you detect a broken component in any firearm, clear the gun and return it to the manufacturer for service at once.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG

[Shenaniguns]

I will say that ammo and the trigger makes a huge difference as well, hotter quality ammo groups the best for me with the M&P's 1:18.75 slow twist.


edit in bold

[scootle]

well...

Dude, you don't have to send it anywhere. It is extremely easy to install the Apex kit. The hard parts aren't even hard.

Watch the youtube videos, and if you need help I can help you.

Apex supposedly does a few un-listed procedures like polishing to your gun if you send it down to them. If I ever decide to go further then a RAM in my 9 Pro, I'm sending it down to SLO so the hands of the M&P masters can grace my gun!

i appreciate the offer, but it's not the difficulty so much as the latter.

[Ksmash01]

S&W QC can be hit or miss, but here's an example of a reputable source:



and the post after is relevant



Now just a standard FS9 benched by Todd Green on the early part of his torture test:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/226

M&P Monday: The first week1,000 rounds As we reported last week, with the help of the folks at Smith & Wesson

• Federal 124gr +p HST: 1.46″
• CCI Blazer 115gr FMJ: 3.52″

Results are based on an average of five 5-shot groups from a sandbag rest at 25yd.
Check back next week for our next set of results.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG





I've never benched my FS9 but I have shot a five round 3" group standing unsupported with 124gr Ranger +P. This is a small sample but with my findings and the heavy M&P research i have done it seems to be consistent, if your longslide is more accurate then be happy lol.

More relevant testing:

M&P9: Post-Test Accuracy Check #2checked the accuracy The results were nothing short of spectacular.



As you can see in the photo (R), the pistol is still capable of outstanding 25 yard accuracy.
That is just 0.11″ off from the Week 26 (52,900 rounds) test, which was the last time we thoroughly cleaned the pistol. That tenth of an inch could easily be the result of just one bad (shooter induced) shot out of the entire series. For all intents and purposes, this gun is literally just as accurate as it was before the slide crack.
Federal 124gr +p HST

• week 1: 1.46″
• week 6: 2.05″
• week 10: 1.69″
• week 17: 1.99″
• week 22: 1.92″ (after thorough cleaning)
• Post-Test Accuracy Check #1: 2.88″ (dirty gun)
• Post-Test Accuracy Check #2: 1.83″ (clean gun)

PLEASE NOTE: Neither pistol-training.com nor Smith & Wesson recommend or condone firing a pistol with known broken components. This test was performed by a shooter with extensive training and experience in firearms test protocols. Do not try this at home. If you detect a broken component in any firearm, clear the gun and return it to the manufacturer for service at once.
Train hard & stay safe! ToddG

I will say that ammo and the trigger makes a huge difference as well, hotter quality ammo groups the best for me with the M&P's 1:18.75 slow twist.


edit in bold

The things I want to know are:

Were these 6" @ 25yards-8" @ 50 yards groups fired offhand, rested, or from a vise? What mediums were they using to test the precision(accuracy) of those pistols?


Something isn't right. I know for a fact that at 25 yards, off hand and standing I can put 50 rounds in a 6" circle with my stock 9FS after many months of trigger time. At the same distance with the 9L, using the same technique and ammo, did the same out of the box, and much better later that day(this was before the Apex mods). I am willing to wager that between my 2 M&P's, if they were put in a Ransom Rest, the 9L would be more accurate overall, perhaps by a significant margin.

I'm not calling you out, or calling you or your sources BS, in any way. I'm also not saying that M&P's are perfect, and that the stock barrel is the best thing going. I just question the "testing" being done.

You would be absolutely correct(S&W's QC being hit or miss) if my pistols were dramatically more accurate than the ones they (Bruce/Randy) were testing. That's why Bruce and Randy are working to improve the platform.

[Ksmash01]

i appreciate the offer, but it's not the difficulty so much as the latter.

Roger that.....If I find out what they do to them down south, I'll buy an experimental M&P to see if I can replicate what they do with a dremel....



of couse I'm kidding.

[Shenaniguns]

My answers in bold

The things I want to know are:

Were these 6" @ 25yards-8" @ 50 yards groups fired offhand, rested, or from a vise? What mediums were they using to test the precision(accuracy) of those pistols?

The 50 yard group was from a sandbag and Bruce is capable of shooting small groups in the same fashion at that distance with other firearms. What do you mean what mediums? I'm sure it was shot in a consistent manner of that he would shot other firearms from a bench and sandbag.


Something isn't right. I know for a fact that at 25 yards, off hand and standing I can put 50 rounds in a 6" circle with my stock 9FS after many months of trigger time. At the same distance with the 9L, using the same technique and ammo, did the same out of the box, and much better later that day(this was before the Apex mods). I am willing to wager that between my 2 M&P's, if they were put in a Ransom Rest, the 9L would be more accurate overall, perhaps by a significant margin.

I'm not calling you out, or calling you or your sources BS, in any way. I'm also not saying that M&P's are perfect, and that the stock barrel is the best thing going. I just question the "testing" being done.

You would be absolutely correct(S&W's QC being hit or miss) if my pistols were dramatically more accurate than the ones they (Bruce/Randy) were testing. That's why Bruce and Randy are working to improve the platform.

The only thing not right is the consistency of S&W, you seem to have a great 9L and a mediocre FS9. Does the 9L have the same trigger setup as the FS9?



I made the mistake of not adding in the rest of the post which may help:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72006

Accuracy seems to be hit and miss. Some guns are accurate while others like Wayne's and my personal 9L are less than satisfactory. IMHO the changes in barrel/slide dwell time will improve accuracy the most. From what I have observed, barrels such as KKM and Storm Lake show some improvement in accuracy, but drop ins cannot compensate for the wide range of slide to frame clearances I see in samples here in the shop. I think that is why some guns will show improvement, while others do not.

As far as the .40s, I will let you know. I am working on an R&D .40 now.

-Randy

Randy, or anyone else who might know....

Why is it that the .45 M&P's seem to be far more accurate from the factory than their 9mm counterparts?

I think the 45 is more accurate for a couple of reasons. One is that it is sprung differently relative to the mass of the slide. I haven't tested it, but I would bet that if you had a 24 lb or greater recoil spring on a 9mm, even though the gun wouldn't cycle, the accuracy would improve.

The 45 barrel also has a different twist rate.

-Randy

More M&P good and bad here:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=78338