Modern 1911's

[BHPFan]

External extractors seem to be more reliable and just about every modern pistol has them. You dont see alot of internal extractors on new pistols. Even JMB ditched them.

Excuse me, but when did JMB ditched internal extractors on his pistols?

[ocspeedracer]

I vote sig between those two...but I say internal extractor.

[redcliff]

Excuse me, but when did JMB ditched internal extractors on his pistols?

Hehe I was gonna say the same thing; as BHPfan knows for the first few decades of it's existence the Browning Hi-Power had an internal extractor.

That said, imho the internal extractor on the 1911 is probably the most problematic piece on the pistol other than magazines, which all try to do the same thing in different ways with different feed lips and followers.

I personally welcome an improved extractor. I hear good things about the SW 1911's external extractor; I just wish they were easier to maintain on a user level although you probably don't have to worry about it till at least 5k rounds.

[Colt]

Excuse me, but when did JMB ditched internal extractors on his pistols?

Must have been in heaven - since the BHP was his last design, and it had internal extractor.

[wu_dot_com]

tuning is require for an internal extractor to function flawlessly. thats one of the major reason why many modern gun manufactures decided to switch from internal to external (SIG P226 for example). on the other hand, external extractor require less tuning but its prone to contamination malfunction and external damage. in addition, an external extractor design also require more parts.

[jptopz]

When I first saw this post I thought here it goes again! There are so many Sig haters out there. I don't understand the big problem everyone has with the Sigs.. I bet that when Jim Browning first designed the 1911 there was more than a few who thought he was nuts, and look at the 1911 today. It is one of the most beloved pistols ever made. The evolution of the 1911 from the beginning to today's modern has had its glitches along the way, but what an awesome transformation. My question is can the external extractor function with out any problems? If not can it be fixed to do so? Has the internal extractor had any problems? Have they been fixed? And as far as the Slide! Does that make it malfunction? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder is it not! I hate it when people have to trash what others like just because they don't . Grow up! Be factual! Preconceived notions are not always right. I never liked Glock's I thought they where ugly, but now I own one and it may not be very pretty but it shoot great. I used to think that all Smith&Wesson's Autos where garbage until I owned one and it changed my mind. And Yes I own a Sig GSR 1911 and I love it! Sorry for the ranting and raving I just had to get it off my chest.

[9mmepiphany]

posted by FUBAR
External extractors seem to be more reliable and just about every modern pistol has them.

You may have a misconception about external extractor = modernized gun.

While the OP started with wanting a modernized 1911, I think his reference to "modern pistol" is directed to modern designs like the Sig, Glock and H&K (with their simplified lockup, linkless barrels and external extractors) as opposed to modern evolutions of an older design like the 1911. The last of Sig's Classic P-series (220R) was changed to an external extractor to address reliability issues.

Much of the bad press that external extractors on the 1911 get is due to the poor execution of the introduction by Kimber, which had more to do with lack of quality control than a failed concept. S&W's experience with the external extractor on service pistols goes back to the 50s when they introduced the M-39 for the Air Force and their function is seldom called into question...certainly not on their Performance Center 1911 models, which have optimized their extractor design for the caliber. Sig's 1911 external extractor has worked without issue since it's introduction on the GSR.

with internal extractors, including all...fully customized 1911's .

all is a very broad term...and as chance would have it, leaves out the excellent 1911s built by Paul Liebenberg of Pistol Dynamics. Beside the external extractor, note the grip safety and removable front sight retained by the barrel bushing

[cineski]

Didn't JMB ditch the internal extractor postmortem?

[BHPFan]

Didn't JMB ditch the internal extractor postmortem?

I guess FN engineers got a revelation from JMB in 1962 to change the BHP to an external extractor.

More likely, Dieudonne Saive (creator of the FN-49 and the FN-FAL) may have done that as he was still alive in 1962 when the BHP changed to an external extractor.

Besides Saive finished the BHP design as JMB died before it was completed.

[Ed_in_Sac]

After surfing the net for days I have come to a decision. I want a modernized version of JMB's 1911....

SIG 1911 XO Black
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/Sho...&productid=126

I have that model SIG and it shoots very realiable, feels tight and groups great. One problem though is that Sig flattens off the top of their slide. I tried a couple of plastic holsters which it did not fit well in (had to jam it in). Settled on the Sig holster which fits very well but it is unfortunate to have my choices limited. btw, I did not try a leather holster, but would think those would work fine.

[Sam]

When I first saw this post I thought here it goes again! There are so many Sig haters out there. I don't understand the big problem everyone has with the Sigs.. I bet that when Jim Browning first designed the 1911 there was more than a few who thought he was nuts, and look at the 1911 today. It is one of the most beloved pistols ever made. The evolution of the 1911 from the beginning to today's modern has had its glitches along the way, but what an awesome transformation. My question is can the external extractor function with out any problems? If not can it be fixed to do so? Has the internal extractor had any problems? Have they been fixed? And as far as the Slide! Does that make it malfunction? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder is it not! I hate it when people have to trash what others like just because they don't . Grow up! Be factual! Preconceived notions are not always right. I never liked Glock's I thought they where ugly, but now I own one and it may not be very pretty but it shoot great. I used to think that all Smith&Wesson's Autos where garbage until I owned one and it changed my mind. And Yes I own a Sig GSR 1911 and I love it! Sorry for the ranting and raving I just had to get it off my chest.

Don't take things so personal. The OP asked for an opinion, I gave it. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[wamphyri13]

The S&W Performance Center 1911 has a much taller extractor than either the regular S&W offering or the Sig. Buy that one.
Otherwise, get an internal extractor gun.
Or be totally unique and buy what you want, rather than what someone else tells you to buy.
Ryan

[Ultimate]

The Sig 1911 is butt ugly. I would get the S&W without thinking it twice!

[bernieb90]

The S&W Performance Center 1911 has a much taller extractor than either the regular S&W offering or the Sig. Buy that one.
Otherwise, get an internal extractor gun.

Right on the money. As the barrel tilts down from lockup the standard S&W extractor ends up grabbing the very top portion of the rim. This could lead to extraction problems. The Performance Center guns probably have the best execution of the external extractor. Caspian also makes a slide with an external extractor that can be adapted to almost any 1911 frame.