Glock Guys: Weird question...

[Oceanbob]

The Grip angles are almost similiar

As time goes on I'm starting to think the Glock v. 1911 thing is purely myth. The grip angle thing too.

I have my .45 1911 and Glock 20. Holding them up together they are so close.

The difference is the wrap around. I have big hands and I don't notice any problems.

I was a stout 1911 junky when I bought my first Glock 17 (smooth grip) in 1987. I took it too the range and have enjoyed GLOCKs ever since.

[Grayblue]

I actually don't think it is the grip angle at all. I think it is the huge curve of the lower backstrap that pushes your hand into a different shape than virtually all other grips.

It's a bit of both.

The web of the hand is positioned higher than the top edge of thr trigger. And, that forces the wrist to be angled downward, and it will be so even if the grip angle is made similar to 1911.

While this does lower the bore axis, it's not good for trigger pull. That forces the shooter to actually point the finger downward and pull rear and upward. If you look at a SIG or a 1911, the trigger pulling motion is straight backward. That helps.

That's the same reason people buy aftermarket grip for the AR to fill in the "gap" over the web of the trigger hand. Imagine how awkward you would feel if you smash your web of your trigger hand to contact the arch of the AR-15 lower receiver for high grip like you would try on a pistol.

If you look at some sniper rifle for comparison, their grip angle is getting more and more closer to that of a pistol. The change from USMC M40A1 to M40A3 would be a good example. And, I've seen pictures of people installing block on the M40A3 type so that the middle finger won't go higher than the trigger guard. Also look at every model of new sniper rifle candidates like Remington MSR, or AI AW's grip and trigger configuration.

The rifle's grip design are departing from the old high front lean angle of the old style stock integrated grip. Those force the shooter to crank the wrist downward near the edge of the motion range, then put the index finger that is pointing downward in a trigger and trigger guard that is placed in line with the straight front to back bore axis in a awkward twisted motion then pulling the trigger straight back while the finger joint is placed in a manner that narually moves down and front or up and rear.

There is a reason for the departure from that design. It's not ergonomic.

Glock grip and trigger replicates that situation in the high front leaning grip design problem, altough to a greatly lesser degree.

[HighLander51]

Here is the question, Glock Guys...

What kind of hands would you say you have? Long, skinny fingers, small wrists? Short, fat fingers, large wrists? Gigantic gorilla hands that would make a 2x4 look small? Little girl hands that would make even MY ____ look big?

No matter what hand size you have, the only important thing is the pad of your finger is centered on the trigger. So if you have really long fingers, you have to bend you trigger finger out to get on the right part of the pad. If you have short fingers, you have to twist into it. Other than that, pull the trigger about 50,000 times and it will feel right. I came off of 1911's from 1968 to 1992 before I switched to Glocks. I shot a Springfield Custom Shop 1911 today at a match, and the short reset trigger felt great! But I still carry a Glock.

[KimoBBZ]

really?

I have smallish hands. The G20 I can hold properly but the G21 and 21SF is just too bulky for me.

I thought the G20 & G21 frames were identical... uppers are interchangable, as are the mags between models without modification. Oh... maybe you're comparing between generations?

On topic... I have medium sized, but chunky fingers, LOVE both my Glocks and my 1911's. Wife on the other hand HATES the Glocks, G21 & G19 tosses brass right into her forehead everytime.

[OneSevenDeuce]

Wife on the other hand HATES the Glocks, G21 & G19 tosses brass right into her forehead everytime.

Hah! That happened to my sister when I took her to shoot my 17. Never seems to happen to me though. Maybe I get too dialed in and don't notice it. BTW, my sister has small hands and definitely cannot handle the Glock pistol grip comfortably.

[slobson]

Most of us here are not LEOs, and most LEOs are not "gun guys" who would probably give a damn about the trigger. That's my impression.

maybe most of us aren't, and maybe most LEO's don't care, but if they are on calguns discussing the matter then they certainly do.

I haven't fired a glock so I can't speak to anything involved in operating the platform, but my buddy's G20 RTF3 feels amazing in my small fat hands with girly fingers right up to the point where I bring it to bear on an imaginary target and my front sight is far too high. obviously that is a muscle memory and training issue as others have mentioned, I'll have to spend some quality time on the range with one before ultimately passing judgment on whether they are for me or not.

[OneSevenDeuce]

No matter what hand size you have, the only important thing is the pad of your finger is centered on the trigger. So if you have really long fingers, you have to bend you trigger finger out to get on the right part of the pad. If you have short fingers, you have to twist into it. Other than that, pull the trigger about 50,000 times and it will feel right. I came off of 1911's from 1968 to 1992 before I switched to Glocks. I shot a Springfield Custom Shop 1911 today at a match, and the short reset trigger felt great! But I still carry a Glock.

I'm not going to go so far to say that hand size doesn't matter, but I will say that lots of practice does indeed help.

[Grayblue]

While I don't like Glock's grip andle, or what it forces the wrist tilt angle to be, that's not my primary complaint.

I don't like Glock becuase of its trigger. The resistance characteristics makes it very prone to fliers.

The risistance sharply increases right before firing. And, the it releases the striker with a roughness like a canvas tearing. That has the highest possibility of disrupting aim at the most critical moment.

It does not feel like a "click" as it does with an M&P or even XD. It feels more like a "Thhhhhhwwwaaak!"

I have a SIG P226R in DAK. Glock's trigger pull is lighter than a DAK, and the pull is significantly more shorter. But, Glock's trigger break is so rough that if I build pressure on that trigger any faster than I do on a DAK, I get fliers with Glock. Meaning I can aim and get a shot on target faster with a DAK SIG which has longer hand even heavier trigger resistance than a Glock, all because of that rough break(probably with the exception of 3.5 lb disconnector model Glocks).

[OneSevenDeuce]

maybe most of us aren't, and maybe most LEO's don't care, but if they are on calguns discussing the matter then they certainly do

When I say most of "us" I mean Calgunners. That is to say that most Calgunners aren't LEOs. The reason I say that is to dispute that the cause of the Glock controversy is rooted in the perceptions of LEOs.

[nmerced]

Say what? I own a G21 and a G20 and the grip is the same dimensionally.

True, but I had a harder time gripping the G21 than the G20.

[OneSevenDeuce]

True, but I had a harder time gripping the G21 than the G20.

Could have been a lot of things then. Difference in texture between "generations", sweaty hands, didn't eat breakfast before you shot the 21 (seriously). Who knows.

[$P-Ritch$]

my favorite thing about my glock 19 is how firm the trigger reset is. I find that sig's have too long of a trigger pull and a softer reset. I perfer how the glock really clicks on reset and is spot on for my follow up shots. as for hand size I have large hands and prefer the bow on the back of the grip it also keeps my thumbs/wrists in a comfortable position, than requires no adjustment even if I have to clear a malfunction. wich brings me to my final point that; It is very rare that a glock malfunctions the only time i have ever had it happen is when i had bad ammo that had burrs on the casings.

+1, how the trigger resets is probably one of the most important factors I consider. The glock trigger reset is short, sharp, and very noticable. Also, the trigger resets right to the breaking point just about. So, there is always tension in the trigger. I don't like on M&Ps and XDs how there is that short distance of weightless trigger pull after the reset.

That's just one of the bigger reasons why I prefer my glock. As far as grip angle, I really don't notice it from one gun to another. I just focus on lining up the sights. Oh, and my hands on the small side with maybe a little shorter than normal fingers. When I wear size M oakley gloves they fit snug, but there is maybe 1/4" of empty fingertip space in all the fingers except the thumb. Weird, I know.

[OneSevenDeuce]

there is maybe 1/4" of empty fingertip space in all the fingers except the thumb. Weird, I know.

MONKEY PAW!

[slobson]

When I say most of "us" I mean Calgunners. That is to say that most Calgunners aren't LEOs. The reason I say that is to dispute that the cause of the Glock controversy is rooted in the perceptions of LEOs.

we can agree on that. it seems to me that much of the "controversy" you speak of is due to keyboard commandos and trolls with little to no personal experience offering unqualified opinions as gospel.

[OneSevenDeuce]

we can agree on that. it seems to me that much of the "controversy" you speak of is due to keyboard commandos and trolls with little to no personal experience offering unqualified opinions as gospel.

I think that's part of the problem. The other part is people who have shot with one type of pistol for years trying a Glock once, and criticizing because it's not exactly the same as what they like. The last part would be people who see things written by both sets of people and parrot their opinions as their own. Not that I think everyone should like Glocks, but damn, I have never seen a pistol so loved/hated.