OLL Pistol

[yellowsulphur]

I've been a lurker here for a long time and find this place a lexicon firearms info with a little drama thrown in Now here is my situation. I want to do an interfamily firearms transfer with my dad. I want to trade him my Glock 31 for a couple of RRA LAR-9 9mm pistol lowers. He lives in Texas which will allow me to bypass the safety list.
Now after going through all the stickies and reading the laws I've come to the conclusion that a fixed 10 round magazine is the only way to go with this type of build. I would use the Bullet Button to accomplish this. What I have a hard time understanding is the topic of constructive possession. Now keep in mind I have yet to build an OLL, but research is in the works.

Just make sure you don't also own an AR rifle, or you could be guilty of owning an SBR via Californias version of constructive possession.

Sections 12020(c)(2) of the CA penal code states:

12020(c)
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of
the following:
(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in
length.
(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed
cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in
subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to
convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C),
inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in
subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled
if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same
person.

What does "readily assembled" mean? I understand the 9mm upper works on a recoil buffer spring while the 5.56 works on gas blowback? Can the 9mm upper be dropped on the rifle lower to create an SBR? Are the 9mm and 5.56 fire control groups the same or would they have to be switched as well?
Now I know some of you guys can detail strip a rifle after 3 kegstands, hanging upside down, blindfolded, with chopsticks and some dental floss in less than 2 minutes. Is detail stripping "readily assembled? I could understand if you had a Glock 18 pistol stock sitting next to your Glock 17 or something that could be used as a suppresor.

What do you guys think?

[fun2none]

He lives in Texas which will allow me to bypass the safety list.

How does this bypass CA safe handgun certification requirement ? If you are in CA, and he is in TX, the RRA PISTOL OLL has to be sent to a CA FFL. To my knowledge, the FFL cannot transfer an out-of-state handgun that is not on he CA certified list unless the recipient is a LEO.

The posessive construction issue with respect to SBR would be a serious concern if you already owned a complete AR OLL, or registered AW, rifle. As you mentioned, swapping a 9mm pistol upper (barrel < 16") onto another AR lower with a stock is constructing an SBR. Based on CA law, and assuming you could even legally transfer an OLL AR pistol receiver, it appears that you cannot own both the pistol and AR, unless you had a SBR permit from the DOJ-BOF. The BATFE might even have something to say about posessing an AR pistol and rifle without paying NFA tax for an SBR.

You may want to check this link out:

http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/sbr-aow-pistol.html

[leelaw]

Your dad living in Texas does not exempt you from the safety requirement. You can only build those as rifles.

ETA: Given that this is your first post, and its very suggestive nature, I'm quite suspect of your questioning. What you are proposing is illegal, so don't do it.

[Quiet]

Your dad living in Texas does not exempt you from the safety requirement. You can only build those as rifles.

ETA: Given that this is your first post, and its very suggestive nature, I'm quite suspect of your questioning. What you are proposing is illegal, so don't do it.

What he said.

AR style pistols are a "no go" in CA, unless you are a LEO.

[cockedlocked01]

What does filling out & sending the registration of a handgun form do? I'm talking about the one that you can download from the Governor's site (Firearms Div.).

You send $19, fill out the form & send it Sacremento. What's that do & is that reg. a firearm?

[bwiese]

What does filling out & sending the registration of a handgun form do? I'm talking about the one that you can download from the Governor's site (Firearms Div.).

You send $19, fill out the form & send it Sacremento. What's that do & is that reg. a firearm?

It registers it.
If you bought the gun at a CA dealer it's already reg'd/DROSd.
If you moved here after Jan 1 1998 with handguns you had to do this anyway.
If you had legal paperfree handguns acquired in the 80s in CA it would allow those to be registered if you cared to do so.

It does NOT change the nature of the gun/receiver from rifle to pistol, etc. as discussed above.

The only good it does you is reduce prospective charges for illegal CCW - it's a wobbler, and if the gun is not DROSed to you it'll be charged as a felony, whereas 1st time charge w/a handgun DROSed to you is most likely misdemeanor (assuming no other charges - violence, drugs, theft, bad stuff, etc.)

[yellowsulphur]

No I am not a LEO. It was my understanding that a mother, father, or grandparents could transfer a pistol that was not on the saftey list through an FFL doing an interfamily transfer. The lower is a pistol only and can't legally be made into a rifle.

Something like this:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR0114RRAP&storeid=1&image=larplwr07.gif&CFID=41410583&CFTOKEN=17741129

Not trying to do anything illegal here.

Thanks

[Quiet]

No I am not a LEO. It was my understanding that a mother, father, or grandparents could transfer a pistol that was not on the saftey list through an FFL doing an interfamily transfer. The lower is a pistol only and can't legally be made into a rifle.

Your parent/grandparent needs to be living in CA as a state resident.

[Fjold]

No I am not a LEO. It was my understanding that a mother, father, or grandparents could transfer a pistol that was not on the saftey list through an FFL doing an interfamily transfer. The lower is a pistol only and can't legally be made into a rifle.

Something like this:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR0114RRAP&storeid=1&image=larplwr07.gif&CFID=41410583&CFTOKEN=17741129

Not trying to do anything illegal here.

Thanks

The transfer from parent, grandparent, child etc. without going through an FFL dealer only works if all the involved parties in the trade are CA residents.

[Jicko]

Can people actually "bring in" AR-pistols if they are "moving" into the state!?!?!?

[blkA4alb]

Now guys, I do believe there is an exemption for an out of state parent to infrequently gift a handgun that is on approved for sale in CA provided it is not an AW.

I believe Dr. Lunde has done this before with handguns not on the list.

[blkA4alb]

Can people actually "bring in" AR-pistols if they are "moving" into the state!?!?!?

Provided they are not AWs, yes.

[blkA4alb]

Regarding the constructive possession issue. If you legally owned the AR pistol with short barrel constructive possession of a SBR no longer applies.

[nothing4u]

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(B) A second handgrip.

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

[yellowsulphur]

This was listed in a different exeption section than person to person. It also did not state that the transaction had to be within the state. I belive federal law mandates firearms crossing state lines must go through an FFL. It also defined infrequent transfers as 5 or less per year.

As for being an AW wouldn't locking the magazine and removing the threaded barrel bring it back into compliance.

Thanks