9mm/.357 mag question

[J-cat]

No he wouldn't. People have been hit with bullets doing 1200 FPS+ and have not fealt it until all the excitement was over.

[XDRoX]

Trying to find an answer to the .45 vs 9mm debate (not a lot of luck with that btw) I came across a very interesting point. The top reason why people talk the 9mm down is because of it's small bullet diameter. Converting it over into the english measuring system it's .354 which is just .003 off from the fabled .357 mag.

The avg. muzzle velocity from a 115gr fmj 9mm is around 1,300fps. The avg, muzzle velocity from the 125gr fmj .357 mag is around 1,600fps. Paintball markers are normally limited to 280fps and 300fps(in tournements) and I have been shot with paint balls at 300fps on multiple occasions and with adrenaline going from the game i've had to have other people tell me when i've been hit since I wont feel it sometimes. So in my mind the 300fps gap between the two rounds isn't a big deal.

With the correct ammunition choices i.e. +p or +p+ 9mm rounds can achieve the muzzle velocity of the .357 mag and even the standard 9mm round has more muzzle velocity than a .38 special which also has a .357 bullet diameter or 9.1mm

My question is: If the 9mm is being downgrade becuase of it's sub-par bullet diameter then why isn't the same being said of the .357mag or the .38special?

Some simple calculations show:
115gr bullet traveling 1300fps creates 431 ft-lbs of energy
125gr bullet traveling 1600fps creates 710 ft-lbs of energy

This is a big difference.

[drunktank]

300fps is a big difference in gun land. In paintball land you are only being hit with plastic and water based paint.

A jhp 147gr +p+ 9mm may compare to a "standard" .357mag but not to a full house loaded .357mag. FPS isn't the end all, be all. Look at the energy both rounds produce. Last thing, the caliber isn't the deal breaker. Have you seen how small the projectile is for a 5.56 compared to say a 9mm?

[drunktank]

Oh, missed half you question! Being stuck with ball ammo in 9mm is what a lot of the complaint is about.

[ZombieTactics]

Some simple calculations show:
115gr bullet traveling 1300fps creates 431 ft-lbs of energy
125gr bullet traveling 1600fps creates 710 ft-lbs of energy

This is a big difference.

Thank you.
Sooner or later people need to realize that the physical laws of the known universe really do apply, whether they want them to or not.

Anecdotal stories, on the other hand, frequently do not.

[Beelzy]

It's all about the speed here, the 357mag 125gr.JHP........Destroys.

[Haik]

Huge difference in rounds. I've loaded a 110 grain bullet traveling at 2300fps in my .357.

[XDRoX]

Huge difference in rounds. I've loaded a 110 grain bullet traveling at 2300fps in my .357.

That's almost 1300 ft-lbs of energy. Did you do any tests to measure penetration?

[Toast]

With modern hollow points there's not a huge difference between handgun calibers.





edit: sorry the top image is kinda large

[locosway]

Some simple calculations show:
115gr bullet traveling 1300fps creates 431 ft-lbs of energy
125gr bullet traveling 1600fps creates 710 ft-lbs of energy

This is a big difference.

Yes, there's a difference. I wish more people would look into that model I made, it lays it out easily for people without having to do the math every time.

[Ed_in_Sac]

There are no "magic" bullets. If a person needs to use a weapon, that person's determination, skill, and training are far more important than this or that load.

The .357 puts a lot of people off especially in short barreled weapons due to the muzzle blast, jump, and recoil. The 38 spl and 9mm have certainly been used with a lot of success though are not considered powerhouses.

Whatever you chose, LEARN TO USE IT PROPERLY!!!

[Wherryj]

The 125grn 357 mag has enough velocity to create some serious disturbance inside the human cavity. I think its called hydro static shock. It basically makes your inside into soup. The 38 special has doesnt have the velocity to perform. IMO, the 9mm is plenty for self defense. Its controllable for multiple shots and with the right bullet is a proven man stopper. To me, dead is dead but some just want them deader.

Some of the caliber wars are rather silly in my opinion. Many disparage the 9mm, then talk up the .40SW. The 40 SW has about 424 foot pounds of energy while a decent 9mm load has 420 foot pounds.

Given the cost of 9mm vs. 40 smith, I'd tend to say advantage to the 9mm.

The real argument for those who feel the 9mm isn't enough would be between the 10mm, .45ACP. (a 10mm has about 700 foot pounds of energy, the .45 about 500).

As far as the poster's questions comparing the .357 to the 9mm, common loads give the .357 about 700 foot pounds, placing it at about the 10mm range).

[Wherryj]

The 9mm is a .356, and there's nothing wrong with it. The FBI put out a study that showed there was no difference between any modern semi-auto round that was used for duty, i.e. 9mm, .40, .45.

Now, me personally, I use my 10mm for most things. However, I trust my 9mm just the same where barriers are not involved.

Depending on what you're doing one round may be better than the other. I know when I do competition shooting I find it cheaper to shoot my 9mm over my 10mm. So usually I run around with my 9mm strapped on.

There's also something else. I had this same feeling that maybe there was some truth to the 9mm vs. .45 debate. So I tried to look around and see what models and data were available. I didn't like what I saw so I made my own performance model which you can find at http://gryman.com/rpf/ This model will show you the differences in rounds based on their features such as FPS, grains, and caliber.

My "take" on the FBI study is that they were really trying to discredit the .45 to try to get a new cartridge. The 10mm had the extra stopping power, but after discrediting the .45 they found that too many agents complained about the recoil. The 10mm short was introduced to "solve" this, which essentially moved their new wonder-cartridge squarely back to a more expensive .45...

[pyro3k2]

Sorry for the late response I just got off work. You know the old saying, knowledge is power, well im just trying to empower myself here . Im not looking for an end-all be-all round or the "if you could only have one." Just trying to do some homework before my next handgun purchase.

I've read all the links posted here, they are very helpful most I had not seen before. With help from fellow calgunners I believe I have my answer now. Just pick the appropriate round for the task at hand, and shot placement goes without saying.

[JTsanchez]

I'm with smitty as well