Springfield Armory Champion

[BlackonBlack]

So what do you guys think. I am hurting to buy this handgun from a friend who bought it a year ago and never fired it..... ONCE I understand Springfield 1911's have mixed opinions. Are they a decent STARTER 1911. I have nothing to compare it to as I don't currently own one.

Looks to be a full steel framed 1911 with 4 inch barrel. All stainless wood grips and night sights.

Anyone have any comments on the aforementioned pistol?

[roc]

there are a few different champion models. I believe the SA champion signifies that it is a 4 inch barrel 1911. You can have it in a lot of their stainless models such as GI, Milspec, Loaded etc.

I have owned a couple SA 1911s and never had any problems with them. One of the best customer service in the industry. A common gripe people have against SA 1911 is that many of their frames are forged in Brazil. Not a big deal to me.

[retired]

I have a Springfield Milspec that I bought used from a leo out of state. It is an excellent gun and I have had no problem with it ever.

I also have a XD bought over 6yrs. ago and the only problem was the rear sight (a Heinie ordered by LAPD prior to purchase) was the wrong one. I contacted SA and they paid for shipping and returned it with the correct one in 10 days. Great customer service.

[NavDoc]

I have several SA 1911s and they are all superb. The pistol you describe sounds like the Loaded SS Champion. NICE pistol. I have the Loaded two-tone lightweight Champion in OD green/black. It is super reliable and VERY accurate. The takedown procedure is a little different than a standard 1911, because of the cone barrel and no bushing, but it's not a big deal.
I'd recommend a SA 1911 without hesitation, regardless of where their frames are made.

[vta]

really loved my GI until I sold it last weel so I can upgrade to the loaded stainless.

[tuna quesadilla]

The Loaded guns are very nice. Don't expect it to feed hollowpoint ammo out of the box though.

[NavDoc]

The Loaded guns are very nice. Don't expect it to feed hollowpoint ammo out of the box though.

Why not?

[tuna quesadilla]

deleted

[vta]

In my opinion a slow moving 45 caliber bullet does not need to be hollow points to have good knock down power and will not over penetrate. Just think about what was used in all of the wars where the 1911 was a service pistol. Ball ammo. This way my practice rounds are the same as my HD round if I was to use my 1911 in that role. I don't because I like to have a light rail on my HD pistol and I don't like 1911s to have a bulky rail.

Hollow points are designed for small caliber rounds to mimic the ability of a large one. That being said, my GI ate up all the hollow points I could throw at it.

EDIT:
After doing some research online, some ballistic tests show that a good 45 caliber hollowpoint with full expansion might run the risk of under penetration.

[NavDoc]

Absolutely true, some 1911's can be VERY picky with hollowpoints. I must be lucky though.
I've fed my Champion a variety of hollowpoints and it has worked 100% of the time! But, all of my SA 1911s have worked with hollowpoints, so it's no big surprise.
Now, there were these Speer 200gr. "flying shotglass" hollowpoints I tried a looooong time ago that were less than reliable in my first Milspec SA 1911, but other than that I've had no issues.
Overall, my experience with hollowpoints in my 1911s has been favorable. That being said, I do have some 1911 pistols that I would not "trust my life to" if I had to use hollowpoints. But I didn't think this was a life or death discussion. The OP has an HK he can "trust his life to" if he finds this Champion is less than reliable with hollowpoints. Between Tuna's experience and mine, it sounds like he has a 50/50 chance!

[retired]

In my opinion a slow moving 45 caliber bullet does not need to be hollow points to have good knock down power and will not over penetrate. Just think about what was used in all of the wars where the 1911 was a service pistol. Ball ammo. This way my practice rounds are the same as my HD round if I was to use my 1911 in that role. I don't because I like to have a light rail on my HD pistol and I don't like 1911s to have a bulky rail.

Hollow points are designed for small caliber rounds to mimic the ability of a large one. That being said, my GI ate up all the hollow points I could throw at it.

EDIT:
After doing some research online, some ballistic tests show that a good 45 caliber hollowpoint with full expansion might run the risk of under penetration.

Dr. Gary Roberts, a well known ballistics expert and mod on http://tacticalforums.com, would tend to disagree with your bolded part. The below has been shown here before, but bears repeating I believe.

You will note the penetration of the .45 HP was over 12" and was close to that of a 9mm. There is no under penetration of the .45.

I present this not to criticize you, just to present a little more info on the subject

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

[NavDoc]

Mine (5" model) doesn't feed any of the modern hollowpoints I've tried, and after doing some research, I've found that it's common knowledge that 1911s straight out of the box can be picky with hollowpoint ammo. You have to buy a bunch of different brands and see what works in your gun. For me, I've tried Speer Gold Dots, Federal Hi-Shok (old school hollowpoints), and Remington Golden Bullets. None of them fed reliably. The Hi-Shoks were the worst. The Gold Dots had the best success rate, but it was not 100%. Why would you trust your life to something that you know does not work 100% of the time? I could send it in to Springfield to have it worked over and make it work better, but why should I have to do that on a pistol that costs almost $1,000? I expected better. :\

The Loaded Champion has a ramped barrel, thus he may have better luck.

[vta]

Dr. Gary Roberts, a well known ballistics expert and mod on http://tacticalforums.com, would tend to disagree with your bolded part. The below has been shown here before, but bears repeating I believe.

You will note the penetration of the .45 HP was over 12" and was close to that of a 9mm. There is no under penetration of the .45.

I present this not to criticize you, just to present a little more info on the subject

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

no criticism taken. i dont rely solely on a single study so i appreciate multiple takes on the same subject. hollow points and ballistic tests are not all created equal. more professional studies rely on ballistic gelatin with or without layers of fabric, other less scientific at home approaches use jugs of water or wet phone books. Some use factory loads, others use carefully prepared handloads. I have seen some penetrate as little as 3 inches and other as much as 12 inches using hollow point 45acp. Regardless of the ballistic results of hollow point 45s, i still consider 45 acp ball ammo a reliable and qualified round for SD/HD.

The Loaded Champion has a ramped barrel, thus he may have better luck.

Good point, the frame mounted feed ramp on most full size 1911s can be the reason why some are more picky than others as the fitting of the parts can come into play.

[BlackonBlack]

Is this the springfield loaded champion? I was unable to find the difference myself. Attached is a photo of the gun. The guy bought it last year and never fired it once. Includes the original accessories. What do you think it is worth?

[vta]

that is the loaded version. very nice pistol.

here is how much a new one costs at buds gun shop.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/197/products_id/43762

make sure the night sights still glow bright and make him an offer he cant resist. you wont regret it.