1911 never registered

[CHS]

I have zero worries on the gun being stolen, my dad and his friend are not criminal just ignorant of transfer laws.

The question is how to legally transfer this gun to me?

Does your dad live in the same state as you?

Then he just gives you the gun. Done. That's it. All legal.

If he lives in another state it must go through an FFL here in CA.

[ORNGXTC]

Instead of going through a FFL couldn't you just use this form from DOJ.
FIREARM OWNERSHIP RECORD http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf
As long as it is not stolen and you are capable of having or possessing I thought this was the easiest form of registration. If your father is also a resident of the state as another member mentioned a father to son transfer should be ok. I am not sure but it seems as it crosses into a grey area as the gun was not obtained correctly by your dad.

any thoughts from someone with more current experience
John
ex FFL holder

[Barkoff]

What happens if this was registered by the original owner (before the employee)? Will they just check it to see if it has been reported stolen?

[CGT80]

I have a hypethetical scenario for you guys. If a person was ignorant of the california laws and purchased something like a Paraordinance P14 pistol from a friend or family member out of state without doing any paperwork, would it be possible to make that transaction legit in california, by doing a proper transfer? Would a gun such as the P14 be legal in cali. without high cap mags? Could the purchaser return the pistol to the seller and then have the seller send it to them through an FFL to make a legal paper trail?

[CSACANNONEER]

I disagree Pullnshoot25, PRK requires the out of state "importers" to register defacto through self registering within 60 days, handguns they intend to keep here. Being in possession of a handgun, not in the Automated Firearms Database (AFD) can result in some very difficult legal issues, especially if it's a post 1991 manufactured handgun. Although many guns exist without benefit of being in the datebase because of their per 1991 ownership, it can still be a sticky situation.
If the poster took the 1911 in lieu of payment after 1991 without benefit of an FFL there is an issue. Of course brurden of proof is on the State and Feds. Did the Poster take delivery after the HSC was required and does he have/had one. If he sells it and it's stolen he's toast. Regardless of how he came into possession of it, it is possession of stolen goods (firearm).
Pesonally I'd find a cop friend to run the serial# and see if it gets a hit. If it does...."look what I found in the bushes officer".
How do I know about this? I bought, what turned out to be a stolen gun. PPT, when it was still legal. Had a Sheriff pal run the # and sure enough I was in possession of a gun taken in a home invasion robbery. I had the good fortune of going to the guys house to buy the gun. Lead the coppers to his door. I think I still have the faded yellow receipt for my $200.

Disagree all you want but, you don't know the laws and your above post proves it. First of all, please show me a California law which requires registration of any gun other than AWs and 50BMG rifles. Guess what, there isn't one! Even your majic date of 1991 is questionable. It's quite possible that the firearm in question was given to the current owner in 1996, while he lived in another state. Then, he brought it with him to California prior to 1998. See, if you don't know all the facts and you decide to assume some, it just makes you look like an ......... On top of that, today, most, if not all LEAs do not just run SNs like they used to. I used to be able to do it with nothing more than a phone call. Today, if a dept. is willing to do it, they require the gun in question to be present along with the current "owner". So, a standard PPT will end up doing the same thing without the drama you suggest.

What happens if this was registered by the original owner (before the employee)? Will they just check it to see if it has been reported stolen?

Yea, that's all they do.

I have a hypethetical scenario for you guys. If a person was ignorant of the california laws and purchased something like a Paraordinance P14 pistol from a friend or family member out of state without doing any paperwork, would it be possible to make that transaction legit in california, by doing a proper transfer? Would a gun such as the P14 be legal in cali. without high cap mags? Could the purchaser return the pistol to the seller and then have the seller send it to them through an FFL to make a legal paper trail?

It might be a perfectly legal intrafamiluar transfer or it might have been a violation of Federal law as well as California law. Since this is hypothetical, one would need more hypothetical info or one would have to assume too many things to be able to come to any realistic conclusion. We would need the hypothetical date (at least year) of the transaction and the exact relationship of both parties involved. Also, the other party's state of residence is important since the laws of that state are just as relevent as California law.

[FNH5-7]

Valuable information.

[Barkoff]

Disagree all you want but, you don't know the laws and your above post proves it. First of all, please show me a California law which requires registration of any gun other than AWs and 50BMG rifles. Guess what, there isn't one!

OK friend, now you are confusing me (easily done).

I was under the impression that ALL handgun sales and transfers had to be done with the use of an FFL, and that the FFL would have to file registration forms. If there is no law in regards to handgun registration, are you telling us that you can request that your FFL does not file registration forms? If the answer is no, and the FFL must file, how is this not a law requiring handgun registration?

[vhram]

If a father gives a handgun to his son there is a form you need to fill out and a $17.00 fee. Im in the process of doing this now. A long gun needs nothing between father and son .

[Librarian]

OK friend, now you are confusing me (easily done).

I was under the impression that ALL handgun sales and transfers had to be done with the use of an FFL, and that the FFL would have to file registration forms. If there is no law in regards to handgun registration, are you telling us that you can request that your FFL does not file registration forms? If the answer is no, and the FFL must file, how is this not a law requiring handgun registration?

There's a difference between

"all handguns must be registered"

and

"when sold through an FFL, handguns are registered"

The first is a necessary condition of the gun/gun ownership itself - and California law does not require it.

California law DOES require that sales through an FFL run through the Dealer's Record Of Sale (DROS) process, and California law requires intrafamily transfer use the Oplaw form, and new residents of California must register the handguns they bring into the state.

BUT --- the 'must use a dealer' law took effect in 1991; any handgun in the state at that time that has not been transferred since then may or may not have been registered at some time in its commercial history.

Similarly, the new resident requirement took effect in 1998 - guns moved here before then may have been registered in some other state, but unless transferred (legally) in CA, the state doesn't know about them.

There are probably millions of handguns not on DOJ's books, and that's perfectly legal.

See also the Wiki for the longer explanation.

[ieballplyr@aol.com]

My buddy has a similar question and I didnt know the answer he asked me if I would post it here for him... he had a close family friend come to visit him from out of state my buddy is a CA resident his friend brought his handgun out with him to CA... when his visit was done he forgot his pistol in my buddies safe... the gun owner owes my buddy money but he said if he wanted the gun instead of money he would do it but my buddy not being a gun owner is not sure if its legal or how to register it?

[CSACANNONEER]

There's a difference between

"all handguns must be registered"

and

"when sold through an FFL, handguns are registered"

The first is a necessary condition of the gun/gun ownership itself - and California law does not require it.

California law DOES require that sales through an FFL run through the Dealer's Record Of Sale (DROS) process, and California law requires intrafamily transfer use the Oplaw form, and new residents of California must register the handguns they bring into the state.

BUT --- the 'must use a dealer' law took effect in 1991; any handgun in the state at that time that has not been transferred since then may or may not have been registered at some time in its commercial history.

Similarly, the new resident requirement took effect in 1998 - guns moved here before then may have been registered in some other state, but unless transferred (legally) in CA, the state doesn't know about them.

There are probably millions of handguns not on DOJ's books, and that's perfectly legal.

See also the Wiki for the longer explanation.

The only thing I can add to this is that one can build their own handgun today and not have to register it. Of course, you need to follow both Federal and State laws when building it but, even a brand new handgun can be legally built inside of California without it ever having to be "registered".