A Practical Defense Question

[Poohgyrr]

It has worked for longer than I've been alive. And "point shooting" or whatever you want to call it, works with practice. I'm an old fart & still use 158gr LSWCHP +Ps.

Actually, I think it is a lot easier than trying to hit a silly little ball with a long skinny stick (golf). Baseball is different, that's not a silly game and the ball is moving!!



And "For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know." is absolutely true. In a way, it says something good, that some folks misunderstand how dangerous the world truly is. Means someone is doing a good job protecting them. Also means they might want to open their eyes and look around.

[slick_711]

Y'know, relying on a snubby shot by surprise from a pocket to save your life against a gun already drawn on you is wishful thinking and the product of too many movies.

Even if you hit the guy, unless you're just fantastically lucky, he's going to shoot you back.

The answer in such a situation is combatives, or a Last Will and Testament.

Ok, and I'll take your word for it because you've shot so many more people than I have.

I don't carry a revolver, and I am fairly good at avoiding situations where I'd need one. I was simply relating my view on the subject. And yes, if I *was* in that situation I would point shoot and then move and draw to follow up... Are you suggesting you would just allow yourself to be shot simply because you didn't want to make a hole in your jacket? Indeed. Let the other guy make holes in your jacket, less work for you that way.

[Spent Shell]

I can't say anything about shooting from inside a jacket as I've never tried it, but I've always been suprised as to how accurate I've been with instinct shooting from the hip.

The only practice I've done like that has been with cans at about 5 yards, and the ones that don't hit it are usually very close. A little practice can really improve consistency. Besides, it's just fun

[bu-bye]

Jacket or no jacket if my life was in danger I would do anything I could to fight back including firing from inside my clothes. This is one of those very unlikely situations but I have never heard someone say.... "Wow, I'm glad I never planned for this." Luck favors the prepared.

[ocabj]

How would you aim?

Have you ever tried to fire a handgun without aiming, from a low hold ("from the hip")? I tried it once. Missed the target paper at 5 yards. Meaning I was more than a foot off. Decided that this is a total waste of ammo, and not terribly safe to boot.

http://www.quickshoot.com/videoclips.html

Watch the first video on the page entitled "Hip Shoot". I met the man in that video last weekend in my NRA Rifle Instructor certification course.

[Aluisious]

Ok, and I'll take your word for it because you've shot so many more people than I have.

I've shot hundreds of thousands of people in video games.

I'm an uber mall ninja, respectify.

I don't carry a revolver, and I am fairly good at avoiding situations where I'd need one. I was simply relating my view on the subject. And yes, if I *was* in that situation I would point shoot and then move and draw to follow up... Are you suggesting you would just allow yourself to be shot simply because you didn't want to make a hole in your jacket? Indeed. Let the other guy make holes in your jacket, less work for you that way.

Seriously though, you're still kidding yourself. You shoot the guy, you're still going to get shot. I said combatives since you apparently don't read. If the guy is close enough that you can be point shooting him through your pocket he's probably close enough that you should move and grab his gun.

Bullets flying out of your pocket might kill him but they won't magically save you.

[SJshooter]

Hmmmn, I am in the incredibly unlikely position of having a gun in my face while legally carrying a concealed snubby. Do I - a) try and grab his gun as you say or b) fire back through the clothes.

This is a no-brainer in my opinion. The suggestion that you shouldn't fire in this situation is the suggestion of resignation - either resigning to the assailant or resigning your life. Grab the gun??? If you really do want to get shot, try that move.

[Aluisious]

Hmmmn, I am in the incredibly unlikely position of having a gun in my face while legally carrying a concealed snubby. Do I - a) try and grab his gun as you say or b) fire back through the clothes.

This is a no-brainer in my opinion. The suggestion that you shouldn't fire in this situation is the suggestion of resignation - either resigning to the assailant or resigning your life. Grab the gun??? If you really do want to get shot, try that move.

I never said that someone shouldn't shoot. I said that shooting is not going to magically save your life if someone has already aimed at you at close range and all you have is a snubby in the pocket.

You keep thinking that little .38s coming out of a 2 inch barrel and hitting something are going to instantly incapacitate someone pointing a gun at you. I'd prefer to grab his weapon while I jammed my snubby right into his eye and shot.

Either way, if you want to pretend there's a 100% survival plan of action, you're just kidding yourself. My plan is likely to work more of the time than yours, but either way the risk of being shot remains.

[stevie]

I'd use 158 grain Lead SWC Plus P's since you are shooting through clothing.

And I would guess it would cause the person some discomfort if hit.

[Rob454]

Try that and youre more likely to shoot yourself or a innocent bystander than the "bad guy" Remember youre still responsible for the bullet and where its going and what it hits on the way there and when it finally stops.
I saw a hold up once where the guy had his gun in his waistband and as he pulled it out he shot himself. A gun is meant to be pulled out of a holster aimed and only then fired. What good is a gun gonna do you if youre there fumbling with it trying to get it out of your jacket pocket.
Hopegfully this isnt a really serious question and if you carry a CCW permit WOW ...............


Anyway if the guy has the drop on you by the time you get your hand in your pocket, grasp the weapon. Figure out its not upside down and needs to be flipped right side up then grasped. get your hand around the grip, put your finger in the tigger guard pull the trigger Oh wait he already shot you 7x and that was back when your hand was moving toward your pocket.
If the guy has a gun out already then the BEST thing to do is to give him your wallet I dont care if you have a flame thrower in your jacket opcket and dirty harry in the other pocket. ( A instructor once told us dont ever carry a gun in a pocket, jacket, waistband. Its ALWAYS in a holster) Now obviously if its a life and death and you dotn have a holster Hell at that point Ill cram it in my *** if thats the only place I can hold it )But the nice thing is if that happens and i shoot someone with it even if the bullet wont kill him the crap will .
he already has the gun locked cocked and aimed. doing anything at that point is foolish. best to wait till he gets your wallet and hopefully somewhat distracted otherwise by the time you move your hand hes gonna pump you full of holes. Shooting someone isnt like the movies where they drop on the ground or fly back 10 feet where they lay in a heap. ( Im not trying to be this all knowing person. ive actually been shot at and I shot at people) ( USMC 6 years)Especially if its a smaller caliber. Even ( lets suppose) if you get your hands around the gun and you still need to aim it while its in a pocket. What happens if the guy moves laterally. You need to turn your whole body in order to keep him in your line of fire otherwise he will go in a blind spot and shoot the crap out of you while you blast rounds at a wall or some guy waiting for the bus. Bottom line is if the guy has the drop on you I dont care how fast you are or how good a shot you are unless hes only 2 feet away ( and you can grab the gun) and he just got done smoking the biggest bowl of weed ( so hes slow as hell) youre not gonna get to do anything before he at least pumps a couple of rounds in you.
Rob

[rkt88edmo]

One, what ammo would you use, and two, would this work if you were wearing a mid weight leather jacket?

158gr SWC +P
When you are asking if it would work, are you worried about the thickness of the jacket interfering? Or what is your concern?

[maxicon]

There have been several threads on this recently over at smith-wessonforum, including input from several folks who have actually done it, which is always valuable, IMO:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/550103904/m/4051074681

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/550103904/m/980109789

I agree with the idea that, while it's unlikely to be necessary, it's better to be able to do it than not be able to. This is one of the many reasons for choosing a S&W 642.

I also regularly practice unaimed point-shooting with all my defensive guns (though not through jackets - they'd probably frown on that at the range), as there may be times when you just aren't able to line up the sights, and I want to know my gun's going to shoot where I point it if I'm in that much of a hurry.

[mblat]

Hmmmm.. 38 spec. coming out short barrel through 2 sets of man's wear....
Let me think... That would be plan #3 after trying to give up my wallet and after trying to grab the gun....

Honestly: what is loaded into that revolver? Uranium core bullets? You can't possibly be expected that anybody will get incapacitated by .38 spec. instantly. You have to expect that you will be shot back at. At point blank distance. Why would you do that?

[maxicon]

Honestly: what is loaded into that revolver? Uranium core bullets? You can't possibly be expected that anybody will get incapacitated by .38 spec. instantly. You have to expect that you will be shot back at. At point blank distance. Why would you do that?

What if you had reason to believe he was just going to shoot you first, then take your wallet?

Options and choices are good. You can decide to use them or not. Not having them... well, you know...

[mblat]

What if you had reason to believe he was just going to shoot you first, then take your wallet?

Options and choices are good. You can decide to use them or not. Not having them... well, you know...

Not arguing general point - it is better to have a gun, than not. However in situation described - close range with bad guy alread has gun out and pointed - I would go for his gun first.
I believe - and it is my personnal opinion that in this case that would give me higher chance of survival than trying to shoot somebody from the pocket.