A Practical Defense Question

[ramon]

Say you carry a .38 snub nose, hammerless revolver in your jacket pocket with the knowledge that if there was an unavoidable need for self defense, you could just stick your hand in your pocket and fire without ever pulling the gun out. Yeah, just shoot right thru your jacket. Two questions. One, what ammo would you use, and two, would this work if you were wearing a mid weight leather jacket?

[Matt C]

Well, first off I am assuming you have a CCW permit.

It should work, I would use a Truncated Conical Semi-Wadcutter (no HP) with a 3/4 jacket. An FMJ won't expand at all, and an HP might by affected by exiting your jacket. A leather jacket should hidethe signiture of a j-frame .38 pretty well, but of course you should look in the mirror before you go out.

[swift]

I saw an article in a gun magazine that the author's wife shot a revolver through the pocket of an old trench coat. According to the author, the jacket caught fire. I seem to remember there being two holes (one in each pocket), perhaps to see if it was reproducible.

[Aluisious]

This is too much of a movie manoever.

Keep the hand on the gun, but if trouble arises, draw, extend your arm at the threat, and then fire. With your hand starting on the gun, you should be able to do this in a quarter of a second.

A quicker shot is worthless if it misses.

[Matt C]

If you practice you can point shoot from the hip with pretty good accuracy. Then again, you can do almost anything with enough practice.

[Aluisious]

With practice, you can avoid situations where you need to shoot a snubby from a coat pocket.

[guimus]

With practice, you can avoid situations where you need to shoot a snubby from a coat pocket.

zing!

[Matt C]

With practice, you can avoid situations where you need to shoot a snubby from a coat pocket.

So, you can "practice" to avoid someone pulling a gun on you? Are you talking about giving your psychic powers a workout? If someone draws on you while you have your hand in your pocket, by the time you take the gun out to fire you may already be shot. I'm not saying I would use this tactic, but it does have some merit.

[vonsmith]

If you practice you can point shoot from the hip with pretty good accuracy. Then again, you can do almost anything with enough practice.

Practice? Geez, you can wear out an awful lot a jackets that way.

ramon, I think someone has been watching too many old Bogart movies or something. Firing from inside a pocket doesn't sound safe nor very likely to be needed.


=vonsmith=

[slick_711]

I'd agree it's a tactic very unlikely to be needed, but of all the people carrying legally quite a few of them carry small J-frames or other revolvers, and a pocket holster is a very common mode of carry for such a thing...

Should such a person be 'held up' they could reach into their pocket slowly, under the guise of getting their wallet. Now, should they withdraw a pistol they'd be shot if they weren't faster than their criminal counterpart, who I'm assuming would already be drawn and on target? Whereas, a shot from within the pocket would catch the criminal offguard. I would of course suggest a good full draw, extension, and proper shot in any situation you're able; but there is a small chance that wouldn't be your best move.

How can you fault one for wanting to be ready for any situation? Maybe you should practice avoiding situations where you'd need to reach for your revolver *and* practice using said revolver in as many variable situations as you can think of. Maybe it's just me, but I believe we (any non-criminal upstanding citizen) should all have a right to c-carry. However, I also think anyone who intends to do so should be competent & capable, both with and without their pistol.

As to shooting from the hip, it is difficult, and not advisable for target shooting, but once you understand it and have practiced it some you can place lethal shots at close range targets. Which it seems is all you'd need in the scenario we're debating? The barrel of a gun when fired from the hip causes an optical illusion as to whether or not it is level, once you learn to gauge your firearm and learn to actually level it on your target from the hip it can be a useful defensive technique.

[CaliTheKid]

I CCW with a Smith snubby in my jacket pocket all the time but I keep it in a PCS holster and practice the draw. You could shoot through a pocket but it should be a very last ditch effort and I would not plan my ammo around that scenario. FWIW I use Speer Gold Dot 135 +p.

[ramon]

Let's focus!

Jacket pocket is half way between armpit and waist, not by belt. Some of you guys may have lived sheltered lives. When I was in school in downtown area of big city I got robbed repeatedly on the public transportation. Most strong arm or armed robberies are at very close range-like one to two feet. Most knife assaults are face to face. I have had a CCW for 35 years and never had to draw but have had my hand on the gun, in my pocket, if necessay. Putting out the fire on your jacket seems preferable to trying to stop bleeding!

[Matt C]

Also a bullet of the type I described in my first post is a very good choice for a .38 self defense round, even if you don't shoot it through a jacket.

[Aluisious]

I'd agree it's a tactic very unlikely to be needed, but of all the people carrying legally quite a few of them carry small J-frames or other revolvers, and a pocket holster is a very common mode of carry for such a thing...

Should such a person be 'held up' they could reach into their pocket slowly, under the guise of getting their wallet. Now, should they withdraw a pistol they'd be shot if they weren't faster than their criminal counterpart, who I'm assuming would already be drawn and on target? Whereas, a shot from within the pocket would catch the criminal offguard. I would of course suggest a good full draw, extension, and proper shot in any situation you're able; but there is a small chance that wouldn't be your best move.

How can you fault one for wanting to be ready for any situation? Maybe you should practice avoiding situations where you'd need to reach for your revolver *and* practice using said revolver in as many variable situations as you can think of. Maybe it's just me, but I believe we (any non-criminal upstanding citizen) should all have a right to c-carry. However, I also think anyone who intends to do so should be competent & capable, both with and without their pistol.

As to shooting from the hip, it is difficult, and not advisable for target shooting, but once you understand it and have practiced it some you can place lethal shots at close range targets. Which it seems is all you'd need in the scenario we're debating? The barrel of a gun when fired from the hip causes an optical illusion as to whether or not it is level, once you learn to gauge your firearm and learn to actually level it on your target from the hip it can be a useful defensive technique.

Y'know, relying on a snubby shot by surprise from a pocket to save your life against a gun already drawn on you is wishful thinking and the product of too many movies.

Even if you hit the guy, unless you're just fantastically lucky, he's going to shoot you back.

The answer in such a situation is combatives, or a Last Will and Testament.

[gunrun45]

I've known many experienced LEO's over the years who you would think were the "nicest guy in the world" when they contacted you. They were so nice, they never even put their hand on their gun and smiled the entire time.

The LEO secret, they kept their snubbies in their jacket pockets. Keep the friendly personal and don't offend good folks but be ready for the SHTF time when rounds are needed RIGHT NOW! Most carried what ever their depts used to issue. Most were 38 semi-jacketed HP's. CCI makes a gold dot that is specifically designed for use with snubbie revolvers to reduce muzzle flash.

It saved more than one LEO's life over the years and I could think of a few more who would be alive today if they had one there and were ready to use it...