what consitutes "loaded"

[Greg-Dawg]

Jeffu, so you had loaded gun?

[Jeffu]

Greg,

They were not loaded

[mmartin]

Megan,

Thank you for all your effort and taking the time to explain to me, I still have a few more questions.

The attorney says i plead guilty, take the class and submit DNA sample by end of December then my record will be wiped CLEAN. As in no misdemeanor record, I can claim no arrest/misdemeanor in the future, including government jobs.

The reason why I accepted it was because she told me if i ever tried fighting it, there's still a chance of losing...

Thanks,
Jeff

there's always a chance of losing. risk is an issue to be considered. it's part of the leverage that is used to get people to agree to plead to things they didn't do.

and risk is real, you may lose, and that needs to be considered. you will have to weigh the possible risks if you lose against what you lose if you plead. you have misdomeanor risks here, no felony charges? important to understand all that means.

IANAL... but if I were in your shoes I'd be getting a second opinion. here's why:
1) I don't know about the CLEAN part, if that's accurate or not.
2) it's my understanding (based on conversations with two different lawyers on this subject) that in adult cases the arrest record *never* goes away, but that there are rules about removing the record of convictions and that part can be done.

based on that, I'd question the accuracy and validity of what your lawyer is saying especially since she's ignorant on the case law, and I'd want a second opinion.

in addition, I'm allergic to pleading guilty to things I didn't do. if all you say is true, and provide you were not in a sensitive area (like the capital building or a school zone), you did nothing wrong, broke no law. if it were me, I'd want to fight. from what I can see, your case sounds like a clear winner...

if it were me, the DNA part of the plea alone would be enough to make me fight.

fighting sure would cost me more dollars, but I'd really be ok dealing with that... if I'm not willing to put myself out to protect my own rights, who will? sucks that I'd have to do so unfairly, but that's no reason for me to roll over. someone has to stand up. might as well be me.

FWIW, I've been involved in two cases that involved arrests for firearms violations. in both cases the amount of sabre rattling that went on by the DA and the SO was truly impressive. scary as h**l. also wrong, not justified, not provable. however every attempt was made to extract a plea to something that simply was not supported by the facts. can't imagine dealing with that with a weak or undereducated lawyer, or one with a plea-oriented approach. can't imagine working with a lawyer who thinks I'd be ok with that.

I also can't imagine working with a lawyer who ignores case law when I bring it to their attention. just WHO'S side are they on at that point? more important that we should get a plea than a dismissal or a not guilty? that would be enough for me to lose all faith in their working for my best interests, we'd be done right there.

you have choices to make, but make sure you *really* have all the facts before you do.

megan

[GuyW]

Unless there's something unusual about you, its hard for me to understand that the DA would take this case to trial.

See - this is a poker game, and your "attorney" threw in YOUR cards before the game even started.

I'd get a decent attorney, and call the $%^&er's bluff.


.

[mmartin]

Unless there's something unusual about you, its hard for me to understand that the DA would take this case to trial.

See - this is a poker game, and your "attorney" threw in YOUR cards before the game even started.

I'd get a decent attorney, and call the $%^&er's bluff.

^^^ this.
I have known it to work.
megan

[packnrat]

Please do as told here. STOP the give in deal.
GET a NEW lawyer, one that knows gun laws.

And out this anti gun laywer. Report her to the state bar.

I am not a lawyer but I do know as long as NO ammo is in the gun it is unloaded.
Can be attached outside of the gun, that is good to go.
Even a muzzel loaded black powder gun can have powder and shot, and not be loaded till you have a cap on it.

Loaded mags are ok. Just NOT in the gun

you did not commit any crime.

.

[tombinghamthegreat]

Some lawyers will give bad advise saying it is easier to just cut your losses and take the "punishment" or damage control. This case however (if the info is accurate) you do not have to surrender. Maybe you should email gene to see if there is any more professional advise he can give, or recommend a better lawyer?

[packnrat]

As a side note:
just stopes in at "the gun room" in elk grove, on the doors is a note saying all guns must be unloaded and empty?

I understand the unloaded....but empty?

.

[bigcalidave]

WTF This one is already documented in case law, get a new lawyer. What a weak defense.

[leelaw]

I can claim no arrest/misdemeanor in the future, including government jobs.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no.

It will never be "gone" and you will still have to report it, especially if you are applying for a government job that does background checks. Expunging the record doesn't make it go away - it only makes it hard for those who do not have a right to know (ie: a potential Gov. employer who is running a background check, for which you waived all rights to privacy) to find it.

Your current lawyer doesn't seem to know squat about the process if she's claiming that you will be able to claim no arrest, no convictions if you plead guilty. If you do apply for, let's say a LE job, and you tell them you have no arrest or conviction records, they'll be really interested in why you have a CII number, a DNA sample on file (felony arrests, felony and other certain convictions), and an arrest record under your "sealed" jacket - ie: you won't be hired, and every department you apply to in the future will find out that you lied on a previous application.

[Brianguy]

I feel like there's something he left out or forgot in the story. What exactly was the PC they charged you with?

I agree with everyone else about pleading guilty: it will always be on your record. A conviction is a conviction. They might seal or have your record expunged but it will always be there. For PD jobs they make you list records that have been expunged. I think if you take a deal theres no appealing it later.

[Hayashi Killian]

Your best bet would be to tell the judge that you signed the offer under duress and under bad advice from your PD. Inform the judge that you need a new PD.

[mmartin]

I've been told (by a lawyer) there are some rules about firing your lawyer, you need to know more about that before you go to court if you're not handling it before you get there... PM if you want me to find out details.
megan

[garuda7]

Greg,

They were not loaded

just a curious question jeffu. your situation is exactly why i posted this comment in the first place. what did you do to get pulled over and why was the officer allowed to search your vehicle?

[valvehouse]

I was told at the range that even if i transported my rifle/handgun unloaded, if I had loaded magazines in the vehicle as well then it is considered a loaded weapon since the magazines are an integral part of the gun. Is this true? Are loaded magazines really a no go if I had them in a separate container?

In CA it is considered loaded if the gun and the ammo are in the same zip code