what consitutes "loaded"

[zman]

wish that were true. hubby was recently stopped for driving in a remote area with long hair and a beard.

well, they said it was because they couldn't read his plates, but we live on a long dirt road... not possible to get in or out of the area without dirt and mud. he got the full vehicle search / firearms inspection thing. with handcuffs.

we're pretty sure it's the hair.

damn, we really need to get that 'cloak of invisibility' device fixed, it's clearly not working.

megan

There is only one Invisibility Cloak and Harry Potter owns it now. Unless your long-haired bearded hubby's name is Prof. Angus Dumbledore, you are out of luck j/k

[Greg-Dawg]

Funny how we can determine range rules vs. transporting rules.

I was told at the range...

If you go to the range, their main rule is NO LOADED firearms when checking in. So anything LOADED is a no-no.

There's a difference between range rules and transporting rules. The range dude must've been enforcing more of the range rules. They can care less how you transport it.

[mmartin]

There is only one Invisibility Cloak and Harry Potter owns it now. Unless your long-haired bearded hubby's name is Prof. Angus Dumbledore, you are out of luck j/k

ha!

not entirely out of luck because he looks a lot like Sam Elliot and not at all like Angus Dumbledore... that's a good thing.

two weeks ago he finally gave in to the repeated vehicle stops (4 or 5 this year), cut his hair and shaved the whiskers back to the cop mustache. hasn't been stopped since... we'll see if it holds.

megan

[garuda7]

If you are worried about the legality of transporting loaded magazines to the range, why not transport empty magazines to the range and load them at the range? I don't see any advantage in loading them at home and transporting them to the range. When you return from the range the magazines are presumably empty because you have shot the ammunition, so half of your trip is already with empty magazines.

I have a good number of mags that i keep loaded in my house, since there are a good number of break ins in my area (i dont live in such a great city). So when i go to the range, i dont want to hassle myself by unloading the mags, especially some of the newer ones with really stiff springs. So i usually just pop in an empty into the guns and keep the loaded mags in my ammo can, but a range instructor saw that I had preloaded mags and warned me about their legality.

[Librarian]

I have a good number of mags that i keep loaded in my house, since there are a good number of break ins in my area (i dont live in such a great city). So when i go to the range, i dont want to hassle myself by unloading the mags, especially some of the newer ones with really stiff springs. So i usually just pop in an empty into the guns and keep the loaded mags in my ammo can, but a range instructor saw that I had preloaded mags and warned me about their legality.

Warned you INCORRECTLY about the legality.

Whether it might be policy at that range is a different issue. Sadly, it is not uncommon that folks invoke non-existent law to back up their preferred policy.

[Timberline]

Why listen to ignorant Range Rubes, when you can get the straight poop in a convenient printed format?

Buy John Machtinger's How to own a gun and stay out of jail book. Only $15 delivered.

[Miltiades]

Reality

I don't want to hassle myself.

When you live in California and own a gun, you have already subscribed to a life of hassle.

[MudCamper]

It's annoying how the loaded mag = loaded gun myth just won't die.

The answers have already been posted:

All known "loaded" questions answered at Defining Loaded in California at the Calguns Foundation Wiki

Buy John Machtinger's How to own a gun and stay out of jail book. Only $15 delivered.

If these aren't good enough, read any of the nine legal memos on the subject.

[tipoc]

This section is also pertinent...

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

tipoc

[Jeffu]

If the round is attached to the gun in ANY way then it's considered loaded as well...

[NiteQwill]

If the round is attached to the gun in ANY way then it's considered loaded as well...

[Ducman]

If the round is attached to the gun in ANY way then it's considered loaded as well...

why are we keep getting FUD??? please quote your PC

read this

As long as the gun is unloaded then you are fine, you can have the mags loaded, even have the ammo touching the gun(like a shell holder for a shotgun), just cannot be put into a position to be fired from(People vs Clark, PC12031).

[MudCamper]

If the round is attached to the gun in ANY way then it's considered loaded as well...

Absolutely false. Read Clark. Or ANY of the links I or Librarian have posted.

For those so impaired that they can't bother to click a link and read for themselves, let me quote Clark, for the hundredth time:

Under the commonly understood meaning of the term "loaded," a firearm is "loaded" when a shell or cartridge has been placed into a position from which it can be fired; the shotgun is not "loaded" if the shell or cartridge is stored elsewhere and not yet placed in a firing position. The shells here were placed in a separate storage compartment of the shotgun and were not yet "loaded" as the term is commonly understood.

FYI the shotgun language is used because Clark had a shotgun with shells attached to the gun, in the buttstock shell carrier.

[tipoc]

So long as the handgun is itself unloaded, ammunition in the same container does not make the handgun loaded.

Some gun owners may be more comfortable transporting ammunition in a separate container, or a separate compartment of the locked container, but this is not required by current law.

The above is quoted from the Calguns wiki page.

It's reasonable for honest people to be confused about this stuff. Cops are often confused about the particulars. Unfortunately it is worth the time to find out the facts.

Sometimes laws are purposefully written to allow cops and DAs wide latitude for selective enforcement. This is such a case.

tipoc

[MudCamper]

It's reasonable for honest people to be confused about this stuff. Cops are often confused about the particulars. Unfortunately it is worth the time to find out the facts.

Sometimes laws are purposefully written to allow cops and DAs wide latitude for selective enforcement. This is such a case.

They do not have a wide latitude. 12031 and People v Clark are clear. They are just often mistrained, or not familiar with dealing with non-dirtbags. Let me quote myself from the open carry flyer:

There is a common misconception that merely possessing both a firearm and ammunition in close proximity legally equates to
loaded. This mistake stems from several PC sections that do not apply to the law-abiding gun owner. 12001(j) only applies to
12023 (carry with intent to commit a felony). 12021.5 only applies to street gang crimes as defined in 186.22. 12022.2 only
applies to armor piercing ammunition. 12025(b)(6)(A) is a sentence enhancement which only applies if one violates 12025
(carrying concealed). 171e only applies inside the State Capitol, legislative offices, or office or residence of the Governor.

Cops more often than not find themselves in situation where ammo+gun does equal loaded, as cited above, but ammo+gun does not equal loaded for a law abiding gun owner.