non approved CA gun possible?

[hicap]

I went to one of my local gun shops today and struck up a conversation with the owner about FFL transfers. I said I was looking for a specific gun, but it wasn't approved on the DOJ list. He said if I could find the gun used I could have it shipped to California despite it not being approved on the DOJ handgun list. This guy seems like he was pretty knoledgable, but I wanted to hear it from you guys too. Is this loop hole true? Can I get a non California approved gun as long as it's used?

[classical_buff]

I think the owner is wrong about this. Only way you can purchase non-approved gun is through private party transfer - which means the gun has to be in CA already.

And, according to CA DOJ, "Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement."

Hope this helps.

[hicap]

Shucks! That puts a damper on things. I'll just have to continue to call around for that specific gun.

[bu-bye]

what gun?

[hicap]

The new type of Colt MK IV series 70 1911. I know the series 80 Colts are approved, but I just can't get over those firing pin safeties.

[rawny@mac.com]

You're in luck. There's one up for sale in the Classifieds. Do you feel like driving?

[saki302]

As far as I know, there is only one surefire way to import a non-tested pistol into CA.

If a policeman buys it (LE are exempt from SB15), then transfers it to you later, you can have it.

I have *heard* that people moving to CA from out of state can bring their pistols (but no hicaps) in legally as well.

I also heard mention of a rule that allows you to import an untested pistol if it's part of an inheritance (I overheard my FFL talking to another guy about the new rules awhile back), but don't quote me on that- I may have heard wrong.

-Dave

[bwiese]

Dave A.'s assertion about LEO purchase & subsequent transfer of an 'unsafe' handgun is correct. However, I think you'll find few - if any - cops to do that. Most probably don't even know the law and/or wouldn't transfer it to you.

It is also true a person from outside CA can indeed move into CA with 'unsafe' handgun(s) and transfer them after becoming a resident. (Within 60 days he must register them w/DOJ as a 'personal handgun importer'.) This person would merely execute a PPT to you at a local FFL dealer after acquiring residency.

Exemptions are for single-action revolvers, curio & relic guns, and specifically-named 22LR/32S&W Olympic sport pistols.

I know no other ways of importing 'unsafe' handguns that can be transferred to regular CA resident. The FFL's assertion that this can be done for inheritance does not seem to be supported by law


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[esskay]

Isn't it for a PPT just that the seller needs to have either a CA driver's license or CA ID? I don't know if that is the same as being a resident.

[bwiese]

Esskay,

Yes, perhaps I shoulda rephrased that. Having CA ID or DL should be good enough for PPT...

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[esskay]

Cool, good to know.

[Trader Jack]

It is not that simple for a LEO to buy a non approved gun. They must have a letter from there department stating under penalty of perjury that the gun is to be used for duty and not for personal use. They can also get a department letter requesting a waiver on the 10 day waiting period.

This has been a subject of some abuse with Leo's getting letters to waive the 10 day wait on sporting shotguns and hunting rifles. Some dealers have reported This abuse to the DOJ and the practice has dwindled quire a bit.

[bwiese]

Trader Jack wrote:
It is not that simple for a LEO to buy a non approved gun. They must have a letter from there department stating under penalty of perjury that the gun is to be used for duty and not for personal use.

BZZZZT, wrong!

More 'gunshop lore law', which is usually wrong.

You're making up law that doesn't exist. READ THE LAW.

CPC section 12125-12133 covers the unsafe handgun laws. Specifically - and the italics are mine - we have:

PC 12125(a)(4) - The sale or purchase of any pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, if the pistol, revolver, or other firearm is sold to, or purchased by, the Dept. of Justice, any police department, any sheriff's official, any marshal's office, the Youth & Adult Correctional Agency, the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney's office, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties. Nor shall anything in this section prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

The unsafe gun laws are separate from waiting period laws, etc. While you may have seen the latter may be abused, the former isn't much of an issue: I find no law extant requiring LEOs to have departmental signoff or papers to buy unsafe guns, nor is there any legal requirment that the unsafe gun is for duty use. If the LEO wants to buy nice unapproved toys we mere mortals without million-dollar pensions can't buy, he can.

As long as he has ID as currently-serving sworn LEO, I imagine the computer screen allows exemption/override for this, and perhaps record the ID etc that allows this sale to occur. If this doesn't occur, then the computer software writers have made their own law and it needs to be challenged because it is not supported in black-letter law or from the DOJ admin regulations I've seen (not all are available on their website, but even if they were, there's nothing supported by law or legislative intent).

[Departments would likely ban unsafe guns for duty use anyway, but that is a dept/agency matter, not a general legal issue.]



Bill Wiese
San Jose

[gunnm619@aol.com]

So Bill. It is ok for LE to buy non-approved handguns and then have them transfered to any civilian? Is there a certain time frame? I have a friend that is LE, and Id like to get my hands on a new Colt 1911 WWI repro.

[bwiese]

Originally posted by xGONZOx:
So Bill. It is ok for LE to buy non-approved handguns and then have them transfered to any civilian? Is there a certain time frame? I have a friend that is LE, and Id like to get my hands on a new Colt 1911 WWI repro.

It appears that your LEO friend could buy a gun, and then sell it to you via PPT.


However, this should probably not be a frequent thing - might raise eyebrows, and more than infrequent use of this allowance without retaining any of the unsafe guns - or instantly turning around and reselling the gun via PPT - might be thought of as bypassing intent of law.


Bill Wiese
San Jose