1911 help needed.

[Black Majik]

I hear the Iowa Baers aren't the same quality as the Illinois Baers were.

Hahaha, I heard the same!!

[B Strong]

Hi all, new to the 1911 world. After shooting a Kimber Gold Match last month I wanted to throw my 229 in the trash. Didn't even have to try, the shots ended up tight 2.5" hole at 15yds. Much easier than my 229.

Anyhow, I had my mind set on a Kimber as it is my first one and don't know enough yet as what to order on a custom 1911. I was looking at the Super Match II, then the new Tactical Custom HD II.

Then comes along SA.. More choices!!

I plan on shooting the crap out this one so my price range is 1700 or less. Perhaps my next one will be a Wilson or Nighthawk? First things first, what are your thoughts on these two? Sorry for adding to the multitude of 1911 threads. Any experiences with the two?

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/tactical/tactical_custom_HD_II/

or

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=28

Thanks!!!

I'm sorry to say the Kimber is pretty much hit or miss.

Springfield is more consistent in their quality, or for the amount of money you posted ($1,700.00) you should be able to find a used Les Baer TRS or similar.

[Army]

$1700 will buy you two Springfields.

No 1911 is built any different than another. You do buy a LOT of name with some, but all their expensive parts are interchangeable with the most trashed, combat worn GI issued 1911.

Buy a quality, way less than $1000 1911. If you still want to spend ALL that $1700, use the left-over cash on ammo

[cactustactical]

I love the PT-1911

After the rebate I got her for $505!





Oh,

No issues with accuracy either

(Yeah, I pulled one )




No real need to spend 1K plus unless you really want to

.

[4D5auto]

I will take a Kimber over Springer. Kimber has far better machining tolerances and far tighter out of the box than a springer.. Of course Springer has better warranty, but it Will cost you, coming and going! In Commiefornia, it is shipped overnight!

[redcliff]

Lot of good recommendations here, just wanted to say I've had excellent results with my Kimber Supermatch II as has my friend who has one also.

[sholling]

$1700 will buy you two Springfields.

No 1911 is built any different than another. You do buy a LOT of name with some, but all their expensive parts are interchangeable with the most trashed, combat worn GI issued 1911.

Incorrect. A factory custom will be hand fitted to closer tolerances. Trust me I own a Stringer Mil-Spec and a S&W Performance Center and it's Chevy vs Ferrari. I'll toss in Kimbers as Fords - I own two.

[sholling]

I will take a Kimber over Springer. Kimber has far better machining tolerances and far tighter out of the box than a springer.. Of course Springer has better warranty, but it Will cost you, coming and going! In Commiefornia, it is shipped overnight!

Why would it cost you? Shipping for warranty work is paid for by the factory. They just send you a prepaid label and you box it up and drop it at the FedEx depot. Smith is the same way. Also Kimber has tighter tolerances not better tolerances. That's why so many Kimbers have reliability issues out of the box.

[Exiledviking]

Buy a Les Baer. Above $1200, neither the SA nor the Kimber can compare to the Les Baers.

[sholling]

S&W aren't even true 1911's. They have external extractors.

If you say so.

Also, which tolerances are you referring to? barrel to slide? frame to slide? Tighter tolerances doesn't always equal accuracy and is detrimental to reliability. Like Bill Wilson says: "we don't fit them tight, we fit them right"

Drive your chevy and be happy.

[sholling]

Springfield GI's and Mil Specs are what Larry Vickers used to use for his signature series of guns. He made about 12 a year.

I remember those days. That made sense only because you could not buy a completed weapon that was the equal. Now you can. No more tightening slides, swapping out barrels and bushings, no more waiting 6 months for a busy smith to finish your pistol. No more putting $1500-2000 (in today's dollars) into an $700 pistol to get a $2000 pistol. My friend your advice would have been first rate 30 years ago but time has moved on.

[kamagong]

Not all Kimbers and Springfields are made equally. At the lower end of the price scale, they compare quite favorably with each other and one can honestly champion either make.

Once you start comparing the Custom Shops, Springfield absolutely kicks Kimber's a__. The Kimber Raptor, Gold Match, and Supermatch just are not on the same level as the Springfield Custom Carry, Professional, or TGO1.

[zman]

For around $1k only, you owe it to yourself to check out the Dan Wesson line. One of the 1911 world's berst kept secret. =More money for that expensive .45 ammo.

Pointman 7 (5")


Classic Bobtail (4.25")

[sholling]

I don't know man. Your S&W is still made at a shop by hand. That's what makes 1911's work, and that hasn't changed for the last 50 years. 1911 pistols are inherently labor intensive. One of the reasons that the military abandoned them was that they need so much labor to fit correctly and maintain.

What's changed that's made the off the rack $800 Springfield Armorys and Smiths completely dependable and as accurate as custom pistols from the 80s is CNC machining and advances in quality control methodology. What's left is just assembly, double checking fit and perhaps an occasional adjustment before it's test fired and goes out the door. All with just a tiny percentage of the labor required just 30 years ago. These days you actually can buy a totally reliable $800 off the rack 1911 that will shoot better than 95% of it's owners. Of course you could also buy a tarted up under engineered toy designed by the marketing department of a company allegedly more interested in getting large numbers of spiffy looking pistols out the door than reliability. I'll leave you to decide for yourself who that is.

You can't just throw a slide on a frame and call it a day.

Actually with modern automated machining technology you can. I was a toolmaker for 20 years before switching to computers and its amazing what they can do these days. What I tell people is when buying off the rack plan on putting 300-500rds through it to make sure that it's 100% reliable (most will be), and if buying custom plan on putting 300-500rds through it to loosen it up enough to make it totally reliable.

Your S&W is fitted the same way that any custom maker would fit their gun

Yes it is. I've reached a point in my life that I wanted one hand fitted work of mechanical art and could afford it. I wouldn't have felt under-armed with my old Springer on my side but it was time for something special.

I personally don't mind the wait either, in the end you get a personalized gun that is exactly what you wanted and dead reliable and accurate to boot. I'd much rather have that than a gun that anyone can walk into Turner's and pick up.

What you're describing here is more of a personal taste choice than a function choice and it's one that I can really respect. My point is that it isn't for everyone. The young'ens getting started can't afford a full custom pistol and most won't shoot as well as a perfectly reliable Springer "loaded". Most won't want to wait 6 months while a name smith does a fluff & buff on an $800 pistol that really didn't need it and charge them $1500 for the privilege and hand them back a pistol without a warranty. In this case the OP had a $1700 budget for a 1st 1911 intended for serious range use. No total custom 1911 fit in that budget but a heavily discounted hand fitted $2400 Performance Center Smith and a discounted $1800 Les Baer Premier II did fall within his budget. Only the OP knows if his shooting will be good enough to appreciate the difference between those factory customs and an off the rack.

[4D5auto]

Why would it cost you? Shipping for warranty work is paid for by the factory. They just send you a prepaid label and you box it up and drop it at the FedEx depot. Smith is the same way. Also Kimber has tighter tolerances not better tolerances. That's why so many Kimbers have reliability issues out of the box.

Has to be shipped by a dealer.

Never had any issues with any Kimber out of any box! Kimber is the only production weapon I've experienced that has the least slop in slide to frame and barrel. Production, being the key word here. Not bad for a mass produced gun..

Colt on the other hand, are pure crap! JMO. You're paying for the engraving on the slide

I've got a Smith Pro Series, trigger feels like it has sand in it!!

Anyway, these are all opinions in all posts, enjoy the sport/hobby regardless of what ya got.

Side note:

These "Custom" shops don't spend as much time tuning these things as you may think, these are still a high production assembly. Only a reputable Indy Smith will dial it in for you, how you want it. The pic in my Avatar is a Gold Match Kimber frame, hard chrome, that is the only thing Kimber on the weapon! I will put that up against any known make out there and guarantee it will give them all a run!