1911 Frame Durability

[robledor]

1911 RIA FRAME

Hello,
I hope all is well. I have an RIA 1911 that was initially chambered in 38 Super. I have a 9mm barrel and an additional slide with a 10mm bull barrel fitted. My question is, how durable is the frame, and how much can it handle 10mm? I hand load to control variables and want to shoot stout loads, but I'm afraid I might crack the frame. I also don't recall my spring weight, but it's heavy spring. Any way to tell? Also, would I be covered under warranty?

[CheapBloke]

Would cast steel frames be weaker than forged? Isn't most of stress on the slide? Which is why 10mm is fired from guns that use polymer frames?

I wouldn't think it won't affect the durability of the frame.

Could be wrong.

[ojisan]

If it is a steel frame it should be fine.
I would not expect any warranty coverage after all the mods.

I use a 23 lb spring for 10mm, some like more, some less, some use progressive springs.
A 9mm / .38 Super spring will be too soft.

[RickD427]

1911 RIA FRAME

Hello,
I hope all is well. I have an RIA 1911 that was initially chambered in 38 Super. I have a 9mm barrel and an additional slide with a 10mm bull barrel fitted. My question is, how durable is the frame, and how much can it handle 10mm? I hand load to control variables and want to shoot stout loads, but I'm afraid I might crack the frame. I also don't recall my spring weight, but it's heavy spring. Any way to tell? Also, would I be covered under warranty?

Colt had a lot of frame cracking problems with their early 10mm Deltas. IIRC. they addressed it by relieving the slide cut and using a dual recoil spring. I'm not sure if their remedy completely addressed the issue.

I've converted my Deltas to fire .40 S+W for that reason.

I doubt that Rock Island would cover a 10mm conversion under their warranty, there's just too many variables not under their control with the conversion. Here's the pertinent part of RIA's Warranty Statement:

"Rock Island Armory?s warranty covers its firearms and parts. We offer Limited Lifetime Warranty on our products for their intended purpose. As with any product, abuse, gunsmithing by an unqualified person and normal wear and tear are excluded. Additionally, if the firearm was modified and/or repaired by an unqualified gunsmith without permission from Rock Island Armory, then the warranty will be void. If warranty work should be required, return the firearm to the address listed below. There is no refund for the shipping cost. Gunsmithing services are available by registered Rock Island Armory Gunsmithers."

If the conversion were done by an unqualified gunsmith, you're pretty clearly SOL. You may have warranty coverage if the work were done by an RIA Qualified Gunsmith, but even then, they may claim that the 10mm conversion was not an "intended purpose" of their .38 Super handgun.

[ojisan]

The "crack" is at the top of the frame left side at the slide stop tab hole.
It will make no difference in use.
Some models / makes go ahead and cut a slot here so the crack doesn't happen.
There are many makers of 1911 10mm pistols, if the 1911 frame could not handle it these guns would never be made.

Pick of the crack:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/8836476

[FNGGlock]

Not an expert, but my quick back of napkin thinking. RIA is not known to make the most robust 1911s. 38 Super is cartridge with around 400lb-ft , and stout 10mm will exceed 700lb-ft.

This leads me to believe that you will run into structural issues sooner rather than later if you do use a lot of stout 10mm through it.

[robledor]

But some say that the frames are the same?? So does this mean that DEDICATED 10MM frames are different? Or are those "weaker" than other 10mm frames

[CheapBloke]

I can tell you not all RIA frames are the same. Even within its same model. They are never built or cast the same as previous. I have pics for proof lol.

[robledor]

Turns out the frame is cast of 4140 carbon steel.

[BucDan]

I'd probably stick to 9mm for that frame.

[M76]

I'd probably stick to 9mm for that frame.

^^^^

find a suitable frame and build a 10mm 1911

two is one and one is none!

[walmart_ar15]

Let's see, I modified my RIA 1911 GI to shoot 40 Corbon loaded to 40 Super spec. So, the bullet is basically 10mm at higher velocity.

10mm - 180grn at 1300ft/s = 675 ft-lb
10mm - 155grn at 1500ft/s = 775 ft-lb
40 Super - 180grn at 1500ft/s = 900 ft-lb

No cracks.

The legendary 10mm cracks are as other has pointed out happened at the rail above the mag catch notch. And the fix was to "remove" the crack section, as in not having it at all so it won't crack. This should tell you how important the crack section is to the integrity of the frame.

AS long as your gun is timed properly, the force that hits the frame is the slide dust cover hitting the seat of the recoil spring slot. The most solid portion of the frame. Check around the internet, you will actually find modern Colt slide cracking at the dust cover due to serration cuts up front. So I would worry about slide cracking before the frame.

Now if your recoil is not time correctly than all sort other issues will pop up.

[mausercat]

If you are concerned use a recoil buffer on your 10mm. That should help with longevity of the frame.

I have an RiA that I converted to 10mm, but i used a long slide and heavy bull barrel kit from RIA. The slide velocity is much lower due to the heavy slide and barrel and I know that it does not put undue stress on the frame.

[Sailormilan2]

Having done this same conversion several times, here are some observations. If you are using the same slide for all calibers(9mm, 38Super, and 10mm) you MIGHT run into some issues. A slide set up for 10mm really needs a Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop, which is the equivalent to adding 2# to the Main Spring(Hammer Spring). With my guns, even going to a 25# MS AND a FBFPS, 10mm hurls the empties about 10 feet away if not more. But, it prevents frame battering. Going over 20# recoil spring is not recommended for the 1911, so you have to work with the MS and FBFPS.
But, if using the same set up for 9mm(FBFPS AND 25# MS), basically just switching the barrel and recoil spring, the 9mm really has to work to get good ejection. Reducing the Recoil Spring can help that, but then the slide action might be sluggish.
While I started with the "1 slide, multi barrel", I've gone to 1 slide for 9mm, 38Super, and 9x23, that is, without the FBFPS. With a different slide, with the FBFPS, for the 10mm(and 40S&W if I choose).
This seems to work a bit better.

[robledor]

I'm using two different slides.....
1 for 38/9mm
1 for 10mm and it's a bull barrel and yes I'm using a shock thingy from Wilson combat.