Les Baer...Worth it?

[hunterb]

Another ignorant comment. Many shooters/smiths have used Rocks as a foundation to a full custom build these days.

When paying for a $2K+ custom build, cheaping out on the frame is dumb IMO, especially when a better frame is just a bit more.

No need to get all upset about it and start calling people names. Don’t get mad at me because you make terrible decisions and your “custom” RIA 1911 has no resale value

And I’m well aware that people make full house customs out of RIA frames, there are also people who eat their own feces. “Because other people do it,” has got to be the worst justification for anything.

[Canadadry]

First, modern cars like any good gun doesn't require a break-in. With most modern machining and tolerances you don't need a break in. I've had multiple high end guns and the only one that required a break in was Les Baer. That's absolute BS.

So you are saying that Les Baer has a build philosophy to make guns with piss poor fit and finish. His build philosophy is one of finish that wears quickly.

Again, the idea that it's okay to have a gun that doesn't work. Let's stay with the car analogy. Would you buy a car that they tell you it only works sometimes? After you break it will work properly. No one would ever buy a car with that build philosophy. After it starts to work it won't work any better than any other car.

You're analogy is false. It's not the result of poor fit and finish. It is a build philosophy that differs from others. Some of the best cars in the world require a break in period to see maximum performance and allow burnishing of the engine parts.

SHTF is a non-sequitur. Different subject.


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[1911RONIN]

First, modern cars like any good gun doesn't require a break-in. With most modern machining and tolerances you don't need a break in. I've had multiple high end guns and the only one that required a break in was Les Baer. That's absolute BS.

So you are saying that Les Baer has a build philosophy to make guns with piss poor fit and finish. His build philosophy is one of finish that wears quickly.

Again, the idea that it's okay to have a gun that doesn't work. Let's stay with the car analogy. Would you buy a car that they tell you it only works sometimes? After you break it will work properly. No one would ever buy a car with that build philosophy. After it starts to work it won't work any better than any other car.

[TurboChrisB]

Markito,

it occurs to me that you also need to honestly assess yourself as a shooter. What level you're at.

How much of a discerning shooter are you? Do you "know" the feel of a good trigger vrs a great trigger? If you were blindfolded and handed a Sig 1911, a RIA 1911 and a TRP would you be able to tell which is which just by shooting them?

Me? I am not really a discerning shooter. It's kind of like wine. Some people can blind test a merlot, a pinot a chianti and a bordeax and know which one each is. Me? Not so much. I just like nice things and nice guns.

I only brought this up because I have a few 1911's. I have a RIA .45, a RIA 10mm, a Llama .45 5", a Sig .45, a Sig .357 sig and a few others.

I HAD a TRP a few years ago and really like it....and was really intrigued by all I'd read about the SA Pro. So I picked one up with the lightrail.

I was really excited when I got it. It was tight, that's for sure. It was nice, no doubt about it. But it didn't really "feel" different to me. And when I took it to the range? It didn't "make" me a better shooter.

That it wasn't obviously different was disappointing to me. But I pretty much came to grips with the fact that I am not that sophisticated of a shooter.

I'm ok with it.

So about 6 months later I needed to free up some cash. So I sold the TRP and the Pro here on calguns. It was a lot of money to have invested in them to not be in awe of them.

I pretty much never sell guns. And most of the ones I sold back in the day I wish I hadn't. But those two? No, it's ok. Doesn't bother me. I moved on to other nice guys in different platforms and am happy.

So my advice? If you're like me? Think hard about it. The differences may not be so obvious.

If we were sharing a beer over it? I'd probably say get a sig. I find them to be very nice shooters. Or a TRP.

[Markito]

TurboChrisB I'll be honest I'm not a great shooter. I can hit things but am I far from a bullseye shooter.. What made me like the Les Baer is the slide cocking serrations, I like how tight they are. To me it looks more classic than the newer 1911 that have a little bit more space between them. I dig the 30lpi and the higher cut on the grip below the trigger guard. What I dont like is the finish. I wish it was a little better and wasnt so thin. I also wish it had a magwell installed. Id hate to spend that kind of money to still have to add something so simple.

I've always liked the TRP. Maybe because it was the first one I seen that had a coated finish to it back in the day. It was one of those guns that I liked but couldn't afford at the time. At the end of the day which one will I be happier with? Who knows. I'll probably need to buy both just to fix that niche.

I do like the Sig 1911s. Never shot one. I own a few sigs so I like their pistols. But I'll always want that nice classy looking pistol to look at when I open my safe... I'm still undecided I just need to see them side by side and to pick one. Sadly every shop I've been has only citadels and a few kimbers

[hambam105]

There once was a time when single stack five inch all metal frame & slide 1911s were constantly in the
winner's circle at practical pistol shooting events with rare exception.

Let us look at this situation from the beginning:
Shooting course designs have always lagged pistol innovations.

Example:
A 1911 chambered in 38 Super always held a one or maybe two shot advantage over any 45acp 1911.
So when you had small group of top competitors being almost equally skilled an extra round of ammuni-
tion was a big advantage. Especially when the course designer(s) intentionally arranged the course of
fire to exclude mandatory reloads and de-emphasized Virginia Count scoring opportunities thereby further
increasing the 38 Super's round count advantage.

However, a single pistol malfunction results in giving away the equipment advantage. So the pistols had to
perform every time without excuse and without fail.

When shooters want a chance at winning they use the most innovative pistols that work. I don't recall ever
seeing or hearing a recommendation for a LB product of any kind for the win; not then, not now. Period.

Over the years what has changed is the emphasis on the concerns for the less skilled shooters actually hitting
large targets and close distances. More on this matter at another post.

Competitively speaking, the three foot high 7th place trophy winner philosophy currently masks the importance
of having a reliable pistol. "Just shoot a lot and rationalize the malfunctions later" attitude now permeates
purchasing approval. This is perplexing because LB pistols have never earned a solid reputation for reliable
operation from any reputable non sponsored source that I know of.

My experience with LB pistols is the opposite of the majority opinion here.

As for further examples supporting my low opinion of LB;

A good many well known & respected shooting event will ask the competitors to self-report equipment used.
I've never seen LB anywhere near the winner's circle. Another instance, somewhere in the 1990s, there was
controversy surrounding LB sponsored shooters not using LB pistols on the firing line, but had one happily
holstered for the photo opportunities.

I am not certain who dropped the integrity ball on those occasions.

I do not catch all the particulars at every shooting event. So if someone here has proof to the contrary of my
disapproving LB assertions then please post evidence of my error.

On a lighter note;

It is most ironic that LB's absence from the live fire events seems to improve their popularity resulting in high
resale prices.

[AFTII]

Some else said, that their TRS was their SHFT gun. Really. Anyone with a clue would never have a 1911 as a SHFT gun. You SHFT gun that carries 7 rounds, maybe 10 and requires constant maintenance.

I've had plenty of 1911s. Let it run even a little bit dry and see what happens.

That would be me and Clint Smith. Oh, and Col. Cooper. And this former Delta Force guy: https://sofrep.com/gear/former-delta...orite-sidearm/ I'm sure there are a few Seals that would take exception to your comment as well, but, I guess those guys don't / didn't have a clue either.

Perhaps you have no idea what SHTF means. It's OK. Don't get your panties in a bunch. My definition of a SHTF pistol is the one I use to fight to my rifle. I am perfectly comfortable and confident taking a 100 yard shot with my TRS and actually hitting my target. I wouldn't waste the rounds with my Glock. My SHTF rifle is a 11.85" suppressed AR. Do you have a witty retort for that? Perhaps the barrel is too short?

As for constant maintenance, read the Delta Force operator's article. Except for his 1911 developing a crack and mine not cracking, my experience has been the same - flawless.

I haven't replaced a part on my TRS - except the grips and recoil spring. Failure prone? Which part of less than 10 failures per 10,000 rounds confused you?

As for running it dry, perhaps you need a different lubricant? I use micron assembly lube on my TRS. I've used it since day one and the slide has always run like butter. A little dab on the end of the barrel and barrel bushing eliminated the sticky "slide" issue on all of my Baers. In fact, the only gun it didn't work with was my Springfield Professional. That puppy was too tight, IMO.

[XDJYo]

TurboChrisB I'll be honest I'm not a great shooter. I can hit things but am I far from a bullseye shooter.. What made me like the Les Baer is the slide cocking serrations, I like how tight they are. To me it looks more classic than the newer 1911 that have a little bit more space between them. I dig the 30lpi and the higher cut on the grip below the trigger guard. What I dont like is the finish. I wish it was a little better and wasnt so thin. I also wish it had a magwell installed. Id hate to spend that kind of money to still have to add something so simple.

I've always liked the TRP. Maybe because it was the first one I seen that had a coated finish to it back in the day. It was one of those guns that I liked but couldn't afford at the time. At the end of the day which one will I be happier with? Who knows. I'll probably need to buy both just to fix that niche.

I do like the Sig 1911s. Never shot one. I own a few sigs so I like their pistols. But I'll always want that nice classy looking pistol to look at when I open my safe... I'm still undecided I just need to see them side by side and to pick one. Sadly every shop I've been has only citadels and a few kimbers

Most of the shops I go to carry the same assortment of 1911's. RIA's, Kimbers and Sigs. Sometimes I'll see a few SA 1911s too. Most of those are the Mil Spec or Loaded/MC Operator variety. I rarely come across a shop that has a Les Baer or Wilson or other higher end 1911. I do know a shop that carries Dan Wesson and/or Nighthawk, but they're up here in the East Bay.

The serrations are a big thing for me as I don't like the large serrations that you see on the SA Loaded models. My first pistol was a Loaded and while I liked it a lot, I never warmed up to the serrations. I love the classic look of the original Colts and their fine serrations. The TRPs are nice, but the front strap checkering on the LB is WAY better as is the higher cut on the trigger guard. You don't really notice it, but it's there.

Some will poo-poo my like/dislike for serrations, but I like what I like and it's going to be my gun. I want to be able to look at it and admire it. I was also fortunate to be able to order it directly thru CJ and have it custom built with my own specs that you couldn't get on a garden variety Premier II. I don't think that option is still available anymore.

The finish is also one of the things that sold me on a LB. I love the worn look. It's like having a pair of worn in leather boots. It may not be 'pretty', but it's well taken care of and used.

OP-Get what you want and what will satisfy your itch. Don't pay attention to people who only view things from one point of view (ie-competition shooting, high capacity Glock-Only Fans, penny pinchers etc). In the end, I think you will enjoy either 1911.

Calguns thread rules apply-Pics or it didn't happen!

[Brother_Hesekiel]

Tight tolerances are good. They make for improved accuracy. Did you know that a Formula 1 race engine is basically frozen as long as it's cold? Fluids need to be pumped through it and to warm it up before it can be started! Is that because the most qualified engineers with the highest budget don't know how to build an engine that works "right out of the box?

Same with a Les Bear. It's a precision tool that will provide unmatched performance once it's set up as specified. And no, it's not a SHTF gun. For that you better use an H&K 45 that will run 30,000 rounds without a hiccup while under water or submerged in the mud.

[XDJYo]

Tight tolerances are good. They make for improved accuracy. Did you know that a Formula 1 race engine is basically frozen as long as it's cold? Fluids need to be pumped through it and to warm it up before it can be started! Is that because the most qualified engineers with the highest budget don't know how to build an engine that works "right out of the box?

Same with a Les Bear. It's a precision tool that will provide unmatched performance once it's set up as specified. And no, it's not a SHTF gun. For that you better use an H&K 45 that will run 30,000 rounds without a hiccup while under water or submerged in the mud.

Agree with above. Right up until the HK comment. Bro H strayed from the pure faith! Hahaha!


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[AFTII]

And no, it's not a SHTF gun.

Blasphemy.

[DArBad]

OP, if you are into the plain-jane 1911 look, just get yourself a Springfield Mil spec, then send the gun over to Cifaldi Precision for massaging. Your gun will be comparable if not better than the LB.

Why did I say BETTER??? Because your gun will shoot true and straight without the annoying and wasteful " break in "period that LB requires from their new guns. You can have the internals upgraded with an after market barrel, firing mechanism, upgraded sights tailor suited to you. AND....when you have worn out the parkerized finish, it looks pretty too!

This is another approach into your project. Good luck.

[Canadadry]

Basically none of the military branches use a 1911. The Marines brought it back with Colt M45. Tons of issues. You referenced Clint Smith & Jeff Cooper, what is this the 1930's?

Because one Delta Force guy uses a 1911 that makes it a superior gun. Give me a break. Even Chris Kyle went from a Springfield TRP to Sig. It was documented because he was having issues with his TRP.

SHFT means there is the potential you might not be able to fight your way back your primary. What if SHFT happens when you're away on vacation. Oh my god what a concept. None of us have any idea what's going to happen in a SHFT situation. You might get home and your house has been burned to the ground along with your 11.5 SBR with suppressor. Your house might be looted. Your plans will probably not match reality. I guess you have never thought about the fact they you might never be able to get to your primary and will be stuck with whatever you have on you at the time. Show you live in a fantasy world.

In the SHFT scenario where you might not have access to cleaning supplies and you can just jump on-line and order replacement good luck with your 1911. I'll bet money that you TRS has never really been run in true adverse conditions. Oh, maybe you were at the range one day when it was really hot.

You feel comfortable making 100 yard shot. Give me a break. You've only ever done that with a static target. Try making that 100 yard shot with a moving target. Last I checked people don't just stand around waiting to be shot. I'm going to assume that if you're shooting people at 100 yards they must be a threat and must be shooting back. Again, making that 100 yard shot is a lot different when people are shooting back.

That would be me and Clint Smith. Oh, and Col. Cooper. And this former Delta Force guy: https://sofrep.com/gear/former-delta...orite-sidearm/ I'm sure there are a few Seals that would take exception to your comment as well, but, I guess those guys don't / didn't have a clue either.

Perhaps you have no idea what SHTF means. It's OK. Don't get your panties in a bunch. My definition of a SHTF pistol is the one I use to fight to my rifle. I am perfectly comfortable and confident taking a 100 yard shot with my TRS and actually hitting my target. I wouldn't waste the rounds with my Glock. My SHTF rifle is a 11.85" suppressed AR. Do you have a witty retort for that? Perhaps the barrel is too short?

As for constant maintenance, read the Delta Force operator's article. Except for his 1911 developing a crack and mine not cracking, my experience has been the same - flawless.

I haven't replaced a part on my TRS - except the grips and recoil spring. Failure prone? Which part of less than 10 failures per 10,000 rounds confused you?

As for running it dry, perhaps you need a different lubricant? I use micron assembly lube on my TRS. I've used it since day one and the slide has always run like butter. A little dab on the end of the barrel and barrel bushing eliminated the sticky "slide" issue on all of my Baers. In fact, the only gun it didn't work with was my Springfield Professional. That puppy was too tight, IMO.

[AFTII]

Basically none of the military branches use a 1911. The Marines brought it back with Colt M45. Tons of issues. You referenced Clint Smith & Jeff Cooper, what is this the 1930's?

Just as I suspected. Have you been taking the same intelligence enhancing pills that Joe Biden is on? Please don't blow my lungs out with your 9mm Luger. Oh wait, 9mm Luger, wasn't that designed in 1901. Yep, state of the art tech there. BTW, its 2022. Clint Smith is alive and well and still training gunslingers. What are your credentials?

Because one Delta Force guy uses a 1911 that makes it a superior gun. Give me a break. Even Chris Kyle went from a Springfield TRP to Sig. It was documented because he was having issues with his TRP.

So now, in your tiny mind, TRP equals TRS? Okay, I'm starting to see the problem here.

SHFT means there is the potential you might not be able to fight your way back your primary. What if SHFT happens when you're away on vacation. Oh my god what a concept. None of us have any idea what's going to happen in a SHFT situation. You might get home and your house has been burned to the ground along with your 11.5 SBR with suppressor. Your house might be looted. Your plans will probably not match reality. I guess you have never thought about the fact they you might never be able to get to your primary and will be stuck with whatever you have on you at the time. Show you live in a fantasy world.

Do you know the 5 P's? Poor planning leads to piss poor performance? You should worry less and plan more. I have. Nothing you've articulated would affect me in the least. Now maybe if a comet hit my house and left a 50 mile wide crater, I'd be in trouble. But so would everyone else on the planet.

In the SHFT scenario where you might not have access to cleaning supplies and you can just jump on-line and order replacement good luck with your 1911. I'll bet money that you TRS has never really been run in true adverse conditions. Oh, maybe you were at the range one day when it was really hot.

Again, PPPPP. Barring the aforementioned comet, I have plenty of cleaning supplies, etc.. As for your theory that my TRP has never been exposed to "adverse conditions," well, you would lose that bet. How's your fantasy life doing?

You feel comfortable making 100 yard shot. Give me a break. You've only ever done that with a static target. Try making that 100 yard shot with a moving target. Last I checked people don't just stand around waiting to be shot. I'm going to assume that if you're shooting people at 100 yards they must be a threat and must be shooting back. Again, making that 100 yard shot is a lot different when people are shooting back.

Have you ever shot anything at 100 yards? In what universe would I have to make a 100 yd shot at someone who is moving? Are there pink unicorns I'd have to shoot as well? Seriously, if someone is moving, and 100 yards away, how much of a threat do they pose? If they are slinging rounds with deadly accuracy while moving from 100 yards away, I'm ****ed and it doesn't matter what handgun I have. I'm either going to hunker down behind cover, haul *** out of that scenario or die trying - in that order.

Furthermore, if people are shooting at me from a distance with a rifle, its decision time. I either bug out or shoot back. In either case, I'd rather be armed with a pistol that I'm confident can make that 100 yard shot, than one that I have no confidence in. So, here we are full circle and instead of convincing me how right you are about Les Baer pistols, I now hold the opinion that you're unprepared, butt hurt and a full of it.

[elSquid]

Clint Smith on buying a 1911 vs a Glock in 2022.

Nsfw.