ISO: Compact or Medium sized pistol for CCW recommendations

[Capybara]

I am renewing my CCW in a few months. Right now, I have one F/S pistol on my CCW, which I rarely carry, the G17. It's not huge but it's pretty big and does gouge me in the side when I sit in the car especially.

I have three sub compacts, the Shield 1.0, Shield Plus PC and a Ruger Max 9. I like all of them for different reasons I usually carry one of the Shields. The Max 9 I bought out of curiosity and it's a good pistol and I want to experiment with putting a green dot on it, simply because I have never owned or shot a green dot pistol. I have an Aimpoint Micro red dot on my AR pistol and it doesn't thrill me but I thought I'd try a green dot to just see what I think of it for just shooting targets and then possibly for CCW. The trigger on the Max 9 is better than my Shield 1.0 but not as good as the Shield Plus PC. Since I can have up to five pistols on my CCW, I thought I might try a compact or what some would term a medium sized pistol. Here is what I am looking for. On roster would obviously be more economical bu† I would consider an off roster pistol for this role, if I can find one I like and can find a decent off roster price on.

Here is my criteria for what I am looking for. Oh, and 9mm only. I love my .45 ACP guns but for various ammo stock reasons, I want to make this pistol 9mm.

1. Must have a manual safety.
Everyone is going to say Glock 19. I like my 17. But honestly, I am more comfortable carrying a pistol with a manual safety. I train with a manual safety, I have had pistols where my t-shirt/undershirt got bunched up in the trigger guard and I just like having that little extra step between drawing and shooting. I know, controversial, lots of people hate manual safeties but I like them on my CCW pistols. On non-CCW, I don't care about a manual safety.

2. Red dot or Green dot ready?
Meh. At this point, I don't care. I'm experimenting with the Max 9 to see if I like that but as of today, not a deal breaker either way?

3. Barrel length
I like the idea of a 4" barrel. The H&K P2000 has variants and some are 3" barrel and some are 3.66" barrel so fairly close. But do any of the P2000 variants have a manual safety?

4. Prefer striker fired
But not a deal breaker, it could have a hammer. But like a DA/SA. I used to like to carry cocked and locked with my 1911 but I do NOT like shorter, Commander style 1911s so a Springfield Emissary, I don't trust smaller, shorter sized 1911s for reliability. Especially in 9mm.

5. I am a huge CZ fan. What do we think of the CZ-75 Compact for CCW? I have the 75 SP-01 and 97 on my shopping list but not for CCW. Is the Compact as good as the 75 SP-01? I had a 75 SP-01 and had to sell it to finance another pistol and years later, I regret it.

6. I know I like the Walthers as I shot the PPQ M2 last year and liked it. What are the thoughts on perhaps a PDP? Is there a PDP with a manual safety? Compared to the CZ-75 compact?

7. EDIT - Please don't suggest Sigs, I truly despise Sig pistols and will never own another as long as I live. In my experience, Sigs have subpar build quality and reliability. Friends don't let friends buy Sigs, or at least their pistols. I like some of their long guns and they seem more reliable. I've been through the wringer with Sig pistols. Pass. Forgot to post that so I am editing it in here.

I would value your opinions and suggestions. If the G19 had a manual safety, I would just get some pinky extensions and be done with it, but I am pretty set on something with a manual safety, 3.7" to 4" or so barrel, in 9mm that is reliable, fun to shoot and a good CCW pistol.

Fire away and let me know what I should consider.

[Rover]

Since you're considering Walther, I assume you're either out of State or roster exempt. If so, maybe look at the Sig m18. I wouldn't carry one without a tabbed trigger safety, but the Agency trigger is a quick swap and the m18 FCU has the thumb safety you're after.

[ar15barrels]

There are 3 manually activated safties in the glock 19.
They are just located in such a way that your finger de-activates them.

[9Cal_OC]

I’d keep dump the on-roster shield and carry the other two you mention.

Not sure how your shirt is getting caught in the trigger? Sounds like a holster issue/inc holster. I’d recommend considering one without manual safeties too. Even safeties can fail btw.

You can try a P2000 or USPc. They come in different variations in terms of safety. On roster stuff, you’re limited. Perhaps look into a P365/XL with a manual safety.

I personally carry a G26 and 19 and have no issue as many others that carry it too. Consider your gear options as well and invest in a good belt and holster as that’s half the equation.

[SB1942]

Sig 365xl-Manual Safety (has a 3.7 inch barrel.)

[Capybara]

Since you're considering Walther, I assume you're either out of State or roster exempt. If so, maybe look at the Sig m18. I wouldn't carry one without a tabbed trigger safety, but the Agency trigger is a quick swap and the m18 FCU has the thumb safety you're after.

No, in Ca. I have just resigned myself to sometimes paying the California Punishment Tax to get what I want. I paid an obscene amount for the Shield Plus PC but the heart wants what the heart wants. I carried my Shield 1.0 for eight years so far and dig it and I wanted the better Shield so I paid the toll. The Max 9 I actually got a good deal on it (for California). Yes, and when the Roster is toppled, I will have fiscal regret ;-)

[FeuerFrei]

IMO...

The OP should stop being scared about non-existent problems with striker fired pistols (Glocks) about safety. Stop watching/listening to YT idiots and "experts" advice and stay with something that's reliable yet easy to carry. He already has several decent choices on the menu.

*manual safety won't solve user problems. Don't play psychological games in fantasy land scenarios. All safeties can be circumvented. Idiots seem to do this best/most.

OP does NOT strike me as an idiot.

[Capybara]

There are 3 manually activated safties in the glock 19.
They are just located in such a way that your finger de-activates them.

Yeah, I know, but none of them are manually controllable outside of the trigger guard.

[Capybara]

I’d keep dump the on-roster shield and carry the other two you mention.

Not sure how your shirt is getting caught in the trigger? Sounds like a holster issue/inc holster. I’d recommend considering one without manual safeties too. Even safeties can fail btw.

You can try a P2000 or USPc. They come in different variations in terms of safety. On roster stuff, you’re limited. Perhaps look into a P365/XL with a manual safety.

I personally carry a G26 and 19 and have no issue as many others that carry it too. Consider your gear options as well and invest in a good belt and holster as that’s half the equation.

Thanks for the suggestions. I generally carry with t-shirt tucked in at the waist and over the gun and holster with a longer shirt untucked over the t-shirt. In running drills, I have had shirt cloth bunch up in the trigger guard once or twice. That's partially a "me" issue that I am working on clearing the shirts away more effectively with my left hand as I draw with my right hand. The smaller the pistol, the more this happens to me, happened several times when I was carrying my P64, which is such a small gun that I had to work to dig it out of the holster and shirts. Think if the left hand didn't fully clear one or two layers of shirt and the right hand is aggressively digging into the waistband and holster to dig out the small pistol. A few times, I failed and shirt got in the way. Through this training, it just gave me an appreciation for manual safety pistols for CCW, an extra layer of safety for my way of thinking.

I do draw my G17 from conceal when I qualify with it and doing so always makes me a bit more cautious pulling it out and presenting and re-holstering it than with my manual safety pistols.

[OCEquestrian]

7. EDIT - Please don't suggest Sigs, I truly despise Sig pistols and will never own another as long as I live. In my experience, Sigs have subpar build quality and reliability. Friends don't let friends buy Sigs, or at least their pistols. I like some of their long guns and they seem more reliable. I've been through the wringer with Sig pistols. Pass. Forgot to post that so I am editing it in here.

I would value your opinions and suggestions. If the G19 had a manual safety, I would just get some pinky extensions and be done with it, but I am pretty set on something with a manual safety, 3.7" to 4" or so barrel, in 9mm that is reliable, fun to shoot and a good CCW pistol.

Fire away and let me know what I should consider.

OP has been a Calguns member since 2012 and has over 12k posts. Does he really need help answering these questions from anyone here?

[Capybara]

IMO...

The OP should stop being scared about non-existent problems with striker fired pistols (Glocks) about safety. Stop watching/listening to YT idiots and "experts" advice and stay with something that's reliable yet easy to carry. He already has several decent choices on the menu.

*manual safety won't solve user problems. Don't play psychological games in fantasy land scenarios. All safeties can be circumvented. Idiots seem to do this best/most.

OP does NOT strike me as an idiot.

Thanks for your response. I've been carrying and training/practicing for eight years and this has been from my own experience, not from watching YT people, FWIW. Some people hate manual safeties. Some people don't, it's been debated into the ground here and elsewhere. I happen to like having a manual safety on my CCW pistols, just my preference and how I have trained for eight years. FWIW, I have never drawn and failed to fire because I left the safety on. I got over that the first month I started practicing at home.

I'm a shotgun instructor and RSO and FWIW, I hate manual safeties on shotguns and rifles. I feel like they cause more NDs than they prevent based upon human nature and people doing dumb things with guns "because the safety was on" although I do see the value for hunting with a loaded shotgun and climbing fences or gates, etc. As you can tell, I am often around a lot of new shooters/students or people who should know better yet still are marginally safety minded so my judgement about human nature is different than most non-instructor shooters.

I guess in the end, I feel manual safeties are a good thing in some situations and a terrible thing in other situations. For me, drawing a loaded, charged pistol from my waist under at least one and sometimes two shirts, and possibly a jacket, a manual safety gives me just a tiny bit of peace of mind to prevent an AD/ND.

In a Trap class with 5 newbies on the line, they aren't allowed to chamber until they're up so safeties become a moot point or more often the cause of a missed bird when they forget to turn off their safety.

[Capybara]

OP has been a Calguns member since 2012 and has over 12k posts. Does he really need help answering these questions from anyone here?

Sure, why not? I don't own a compact pistol and lots of CGers own multiple compacts and carry them. There are a lot of CGers who are really talented handgunners and I have received a lot of good recommendations on guns, ammo, gear, training, drills, reloading over the years.

I'm a shotgunner who happens to carry but I'm not a top pistol shooter by any means. It's a discussion board, isn't it?

BTW, OT, why are you no longer a SAF lifetime member?

[FeuerFrei]

Thanks for your response. I've been carrying and training/practicing for eight years and this has been from my own experience, not from watching YT people, FWIW. Some people hate manual safeties. Some people don't, it's been debated into the ground here and elsewhere. I happen to like having a manual safety on my CCW pistols, just my preference and how I have trained for eight years. FWIW, I have never drawn and failed to fire because I left the safety on. I got over that the first month I carried.

I'm a shotgun instructor and RSO and FWIW, I hate manual safeties on shotguns and rifles. I feel like they cause more NDs than they prevent based upon human nature and people doing dumb things with guns "because the safety was on" although I do see the value for hunting with a loaded shotgun and climbing fences or gates, etc. As you can tell, I am often around a lot of new shooters/students or people who should know better yet still are marginally safety minded so my judgement about human nature is different than most non-instructor shooters.

I guess in the end, I feel manual safeties are a good thing in some situations and a terrible thing in other situations. For me, drawing a loaded, charged pistol from my waist under at least one and sometimes two shirts, and possibly a jacket, a manual safety gives me just a tiny bit of peace of mind to prevent an AD/ND.

In a Trap class with 5 newbies on the line, they aren't allowed to chamber until they're up so safeties become a moot point or more often the cause of a missed bird when they forget to turn off their safety.

You carry a 17. Evidently it has never fired itself nor have you had a problem with it.

You want confidence in a mechanical thumb activated safety to self sooth your thinking meat? OK.

I have carried revolvers/pistols in Kali since the mid 80's with no problems. Practice yes.
Worry about safeties, no. Just being a competent user.

Your own competency breeds confidence with your equipment, not mechanical safety devices. Competence and confidence in your skill makes you safe. You know this.

You are not your padawan learners. Maybe teaching your students is affecting your decision based upon what they do?

You'll sort this out eventually.

*BTW, I edc a G26 and have done so for many years. It represents the three food groups of ccw in my eyes. Slick w/no stick outs, easily fits in a pocket or holster and is reliable as the day is long.

[ar15barrels]

Yeah, I know, but none of them are manually controllable outside of the trigger guard.

Tell me how you think that a manual safety makes a gun safer.
You still have to use a digit to deactivate it.

Are you someone who is so unsafe that you can not remember to keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot?
If so, you probably should not be carrying a firearm at all.

A safety outside the triggerguard is not going to help once you have turned off the safety while the 3 inside the triggerguard on a glock are still active until you reach the end of the trigger pull.
A manual safety only gets in the way when you are under the most duress and absolutely need to fire and least likely to be thinking straight.

I'm a shotgun instructor and RSO and FWIW, I hate manual safeties on shotguns and rifles.
I feel like they cause more NDs than they prevent based upon human nature and people doing dumb things with guns "because the safety was on" although I do see the value for hunting with a loaded shotgun and climbing fences or gates, etc.

Same deal for handguns.
And relying on a manual safety to make you think the gun is actually safe is a very poor plan.
Taking the gun out of battery is the only true way to make it safe for crossing fences/gates.

[plumbum]

I love my G26 with the G17 trigger and NY1 spring - might make you feel a little more confident in the safety features and no manual safety.

Otherwise I’d just stick with the Shield 1.0 you already have.