Red dot sight - accuracy improvement?

[Rcjackrabbit]

I am considering having my Glock 22 and 27 milled for Holosun 508T.

With iron sights, I can consistently put 9 out of 10 rounds on a B8 (5") black zone out to 15 yards. Beyond that, due to eyesight issues, my performance goes down rapidly.

When you transitioned to a red dot on your pistol, how much did it improve your practical accuracy?

My goal is to shoot 90% on a B8 target out to 25 yards.

[foreppin916]

For me, my accuracy from 25+ yards greatly improved. Was able to constantly hit a C zone steel target at 100 yards with a dot.

Down side, on a shot timer running an RMR compared to Irons on my carry gun was slower, about .10-.20 of a second slower. Acquiring the dot in the window from a concealed draw takes a lot of practice.

after a lot of dry fire, and probably 1000 rounds of practice it was on par with my iron on the timer.

I you don't plan on carrying with a red dot, then of course this is a non issue and DO IT!

[Rcjackrabbit]

0.20 seconds is not that much!

[Matt P]

[HKAllTheThings]

[lanzer]

Aging eyes like mine are gonna have trouble aiming through iron sights, and this is where red dot can help greatly. Over the years, maintaining a group size of less than 2" at 25 yards had been getting harder and harder, but with a red dot sight the accuracy had not been affected.

If you're unsure, you can try putting an adapter on your Glock as well as trying out one of those cheaper sights that cost around $70. I have my nice sights as well as cheap ones, and I honest cannot say how spending three times as much improved my accuracy. Same with a milled slide compared to a slide with a RDS sitting high on an adapter. Though of course the higher price tags comes with reliability that would be important if you plan to compete or carry. Either way you'll have fun.

[NorCalRT]

Accuracy with a dot is vastly improved, but the dot also tells the truth. You will probably be shocked at how much the dot moves, or when you present the gun and you a cant see the dot (hint if you are looking through the lens and not seeing the dot, your presentation sucks and you aren't aiming at what you thought you where). Plus side is with the dot you can dry fire all those issues away and you will be faster with the dot and with irons! Transitions and follow up shots are also much faster with a dot.

[joefrank64k]

[static2126]

Will post some pics tomorrow

[sbo80]

Accuracy with a dot is vastly improved, but the dot also tells the truth.

I noticed I'm much better at "calling my shots". With irons, I could always tell when I shanked one bad, but not so much when it was just a bit off. Was that high? Low?. Especially at distance. With the dot, as soon as the gun starts recoiling, I already know pretty much exactly where it went.

[rodralig]

I am considering having my Glock 22 and 27 milled for Holosun 508T.

Full thread here: http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1729596



Anyways, past is past... I will bite on this thread:

For me, my accuracy from 25+ yards greatly improved. Was able to constantly hit a C zone steel target at 100 yards with a dot.

There is a school in SoCal, run by retired/active LAPD SWAT officers. They have a standard at a 150-yard steel silhouette - 4-secs from the draw.

The red dot makes this easier to execute.

Down side, on a shot timer running an RMR compared to Irons on my carry gun was slower, about .10-.20 of a second slower. Acquiring the dot in the window from a concealed draw takes a lot of practice.

after a lot of dry fire, and probably 1000 rounds of practice it was on par with my iron on the timer.

Which should be the case - why expect similar results on RDS using techniques developed for Iron Sights?

0.20 seconds is not that much!

For a draw to target - 0.20 is a LOT of time! It is a lot!

When you transitioned to a red dot on your pistol, how much did it improve your practical accuracy?

Here is a log from an indoor live practice about a week back.

• Group shooting at 15-yards. Green circle is 4-inches... This is NOT bullseye, but the accuracy is the priority.
• Shot calling drills at 20-yards - rapid pace... Not match pace, or just rapid firing - I need to be responsible for each and every shot, ie., even at speed, I focus on an acceptable sight picture to make the 5-inch black.

My goal is to shoot 90% on a B8 target out to 25 yards.

At what pace? Slow fire? Controlled pairs? Hosing speed?

I noticed I'm much better at "calling my shots". With irons, I could always tell when I shanked one bad, but not so much when it was just a bit off. Was that high? Low?. Especially at distance. With the dot, as soon as the gun starts recoiling, I already know pretty much exactly where it went.

One of the beauties of RDS!


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[Rcjackrabbit]

Rod, sometimes I am wrong. I think I was wrong about "red dots being a fad". The incidence of mass shooters with a rifle and body armor is increasing. In these situations, center of face is the new center of mass. At a a recent class I personally witnessed people making 25 yard / 30 yard head shots with red dots on their handguns. I am not able to do this with iron sights. So, I need to admit I was wrong.

Another question - does having a red dot on your primary gun effect your ability to effectively shoot an iron sighted gun? Or, to put it another way, should a person convert all their guns to be the same (red dot) for consistency in training and performance.

[jmatt511]

Rod, sometimes I am wrong. I think I was wrong about "red dots being a fad."

Another question - does having a red dot on your primary gun effect your ability to effectively shoot an iron sighted gun?

I've found when shooting iron sights after training with RDS equipped weapons, it's easier to shoot irons with both eyes open. It appears, at least to me, shooting with RDS trains your brain to allows your dominate eye greater priority. This also allows me to acquire and shoot my target with greater speed and hit probability under both systems.

As to being a "fad", think about carbines. 40 years ago when RDS first appeared, it was a fad that only elite military units would use. These days, no one would recommend a short distance self defense rifle without one.

[rodralig]

Another question - does having a red dot on your primary gun effect your ability to effectively shoot an iron sighted gun?

As others have mentioned here, other threads, etc. it does. But for the better!

Since there is so much information that a red dot can effectively (or should I say efficiently) give to the shooter -

• it serves as a good diagnostic tool - which translates to a feedback loop for improving performance
• it speeds up vision, which, IMO, is what ultimately drives performance with firearms (target acquisition, transitions, etc.)
• it helps build a more consistent (and efficient) presentation index
• it allows for our brain/body to do what is more natural, ie., "target focused"

That said, your question is quite timely - this recently came up from Tactical Hyve (there are simply other people who are better at explaining concepts, etc.) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8cmzTgIaCM

I would suggest being more exclusive to red dots for some duration... Then come back to iron sights and see how that goes...

Good luck!!!


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[D.A.V.I.D.]

Rod, sometimes I am wrong. I think I was wrong about "red dots being a fad". The incidence of mass shooters with a rifle and body armor is increasing. In these situations, center of face is the new center of mass. At a a recent class I personally witnessed people making 25 yard / 30 yard head shots with red dots on their handguns. I am not able to do this with iron sights. So, I need to admit I was wrong.

Another question - does having a red dot on your primary gun effect your ability to effectively shoot an iron sighted gun? Or, to put it another way, should a person convert all their guns to be the same (red dot) for consistency in training and performance.