What counts as a vertical forward grip?

[robcoe]

For pistol purposes what counts as a vertical forward grip?

I have kind of a hankering for something a little silly but still kind of useful as a truck gun/ small target gun and I recently saw the Remington 700 cp and thought it would be fun but I would want a bipod on it and I would like to know from people who are more into the minutiae than I if that’s verboten or ok so I don’t accidentally make an AOW

And I’m talking like a Harris bipod, not one of those vfg/bipod hybrids ARs sometimes have

[plumbum]

Being it is a bolt action and not a semi auto, the AW rules do not apply.
BTW, the Rem CP isn’t on roster, but the Franklin CA7 is... left stock it’s completely legit tiny hand rifle.

[jcwatchdog]

A regular bipod is perfectly fine.

[Califpatriot]

https://johnpierceesq.com/does-putti...ctured%20below.

This is a good analysis. A Harris should be fine

[Califpatriot]

Being it is a bolt action and not a semi auto, the AW rules do not apply.
.

The concern here is not California law but the NFA and the ATF's position that vertical foregrips on guns shorter than 26 inches oal make them into AOWs.

[robcoe]

Being it is a bolt action and not a semi auto, the AW rules do not apply.
BTW, the Rem CP isn’t on roster, but the Franklin CA7 is... left stock it’s completely legit tiny hand rifle.

Crap, being a single action I hadn’t even thought to check if it was on roster, just kind of assumed Remington would have submitted it.

Some days I hate this state, mostly the ones that end in y

[morrcarr67]

Crap, being a single bolt action I hadn’t even thought to check if it was on roster, just kind of assumed Remington would have submitted it.

Some days I hate this state, mostly the ones that end in y

FIFY

Seeing that it has never been a semiautomatic pistol and is already a bolt action, it can be converted to a roster exempt single shot bolt action pistol.

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[robcoe]

FIFO

Seeing that it has never been a semiautomatic pistol and is already a bolt action, it can be converted to a roster exempt single shot bolt action pistol.

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[morrcarr67]

Not if you go buy what Bill has to say on the matter.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=24612809&postcount=112

Hi SkyHawk...

Very open question/defendable especially if the gun transitioned thru single-shot status to semiauto and was 'virgin nonsemaiuto' to begin with.

AB1964 legislation changed wording only in minor ways, effectively restricting the single shot exemption to "guns that were never semiauto".
This does not mean various unused design features but only if actual semiauto status (incl factory testing) existed.

Note that SSE transition to semiauto was done all the way up to 2014.

The process was even inspected by DOJ, field agents are available for testimony as such, and shop inventory was approved for sale. Boatloads of SSE transactions went on in front of DOJ's noses (ie. sales during inspections/audits) for several years.

It was so legal that they changed the law. And only slightly.

They were thinking of blocking all the Sig and 1911 off-Roster variants. They really weren't thinking of virgin receiver buildups.

THE LAW DID NOT CHANGE IN THIS RESPECT (single shot/bolt action etc to semiauto). It only addded, essentially, the "virgin nonsemiauto" status requirement.

Additionally, DOJ writings from a Deputy AG indicated it was quite legal to buy a Rostered Glock and send it to Smyrna to put a left handed safety on it. That itself alone transitions the gun outside of Rostered status, just like using aftermarket magazines (say, CMC) in your Rostered Springfield 1911. [I specifically note that guns are tested/rostered with supplied magazines as exemplar, not "any magazine that fits". Changing parts in a magazines actually should make a gun fall off the Roster now with DOJ's new interpretation of "minor changes = new gun to certify with microstamping."]

The DOJ has a terrible burden because they do not have a 'priority list' of substitutable [or not] parts. For them to hold a position that a gun cannot be modified to another legally possessable state, this would preclude (1) generic replacement/repair parts, (2) generic magazines. The law has no exclusion for these.

Additionally, the single shot exclusion in PC 32100b - only slightly tweaked by AB1964 - still has the "32000PC shall not apply to...".

[When I posted the 'recipe' in summer of 2011 here on CGN, it was read by various parties, including ATF legal. Word got back to me thru 'a person in the room' that ATF - who actually does understand CA law - even praised the accuracy.]

I submit that DOJ will not bust somebody with the above for at best a misdemeanor Roster violation esp given the murkiness. AW violations? sure. All busts of stuff involving AR pistols seem to involve AW issues only.

This otherwise has the potential to get into "OK so that violates the Roster, you mean we can't use ordinary generic replacement wear & tear parts or generic magazines?" Hello Magnusson-Moss warranty act, etc. [Do you lose your GMC warranty and & emissions compliance for using a Fram oil filter or generic battery terminal? - rough equivalent]

So no, you can't SSE a gun that was already a semiauto (like we did 2007-2013 or whenever AB1964 kicked in.

But if you build up a gun, in non-AW form, from a virgin frame into a true single shot configuration - and do the serialization drama etc. - then convert to semiauto nonAW form you've moved thru a neutral zone to legal possession.

If you understand that in SSE 1.0 it was legal go back to semiauto; I see no reason based on Bill's post, why under SSE 2.0 you couldn't go back to bolt action.

[The War Wagon]

I run a Magpul handstop on my Bren 805... but then, in pistol configuration, the 805 is probably verboten in CA.

[Mr. Blue]

The only roster currently is the handgun roster. Rifles are not limited by their model, but by their features.

[lastinline]

[morrcarr67]

For pistol purposes what counts as a vertical forward grip?

... the Remington 700 cp ...

The only roster currently is the handgun roster. Rifles are not limited by their model, but by their features.

Well since the OP was talking about a pistol .......

[DrjonesUSA]

The 700CP looks SICK & I would love to own one.

But it's pretty far down the list.

For something kinda similar & I think less expensive, and also more modular, Thompson Center Contender is pretty awesome.....