Double/Single Action in a Striker Fire World

[DrewTheBrave]

https://youtu.be/m42IJIreRoc

Interesting video from Ernest Langdon about why he chooses double/single action handguns. While I like my Glock a lot, I have a sweet spot for Berettas, CZs, Sigs, and the like with traditional DA/SA triggers. One of the benefits of training regularly with DA/SA firearms is that I feel like I can comfortably shoot ANY firearm well, whether it's a DA revolver, SA 1911, or striker-fired plastic fantastic.

I know a lot of shooters who are great shots with their Glocks and 1911s, but can't hit the broadside of a barn with even a light DA pull. I get it: "train with what you use" and "fear the man with only one gun". No sense in training with DA when you only own striker fired guns. But I think there is benefit to being well versed in a range of actions.

It seems like the DA/SA trigger is gradually going the way of the manual transmission. Being more expensive, more complicated, and more difficult to master makes DA/SA handguns a tough sell to novice shooters. But in the long run, I think it's a system worth serious consideration for anyone willing to dedicate the time to master it.

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[DanGunner]

My take and practice: DA/SA for centerfire autoloaders and DAO For self defense revolvers. If you can shoot a DAO snubby accurately your can shoot anything.

[zfields]

Langdon has far more experience involving many of these topics that I do, but I don't particularly agree with some of the things he says (specifically the "deliberate action of a DA pull").

That said, I still like DA/SA guns.

It takes me significantly more effort to shoot well with a DA trigger, more due to rarely training with mine. Similar to that I shoot like lukewarm dog **** if on a timer with glocks. Accuracy, I'm fine.

Why? Because it's not what I normally shoot.

I agree though, DA triggers tend to make you a better shooter overall, and the trigger control you gain transfers over extremely well to striker/SA guns.

[faterikcartman]

Just for informational purposes the original Walther P99 featured both a striker and DA/SA operation. Cool.

[Snoopy47]

DA/SA seem to have their use in situations where the user (i.e. police officer) is nominally trained in their use and doesn't train past the minimum requirement and infrequent training cycle.

They also make a good use of force policy crutch over Condition 3 single actions, and always ready safe action striker systems.

Their attraction is redundant safeties. Not ease of shooting use.

There is a Reason CZ's dominate USPSA in Production Division over striker fired polymers and that's the follow up Single Action past the first shot, and a round counter that can always have the hammer back and one in the tube.

SAO are not allowed in Production probably for that very advantage over both. Otherwise a SAO 1911 would be better if capacity is matched (say a 9mm 1911)

I like DA/SA for dry fire practice. I prefer a 1911 for actual live fire anything. I shoot Glock competitively because of prize payouts.

[rromeo]

I started with DA/SA, so that is still my preference.

[SandHill]

I loves me some DA/SA goodness. I am sort of medium experienced, by no means an operator. But I think DA/SA gives you lots of choices. You can take it them the range and only fire SA if you want. You can carry in DA without a safety. You can keep one on the nightstand safety off and in DA mode. If you have time, and something is going bump in the night, you can thumb cock it and present it in SA mode. If you don't have time, it's still ready to go in DA mode. Some of them even allow you carry cocked and locked, not that I would do that. The point is, you have options.

I like DA/SA so much that I am basically replacing all my striker fired guns with DA/SA.

[Verdha603]

Yeah I'll readily admit being a major fan of the DA/SA camp tends to put me in the middle of the crossfire between Team 1911 and Team Glock; apparently I don't like having one consistent trigger weight, I want less weight than the 1911 crowd and more weight than the Glock crowd, and the former thinks I spray and pray while the latter think 15 rounds in the gun is low capacity by 2020 standards.

Sig Sauer, CZ, Smith & Wesson, HK, Ruger, Makarov's, all have DA/SA designs I've grown to really enjoy. I think the only one I never really warmed up to were Beretta's and older Walther P38's, mainly because of the slide design made it easy to burn my fingers while racking it.

Frankly I'd argue they still have a place, considering the majority of revolvers still being sold are DA/SA guns and multiple big name manufacturers still produce large quantities of DA/SA semi-auto's as well, they just have a tougher learning curve than the striker-fired or single-action crowds. That, and apparently they're uncommon enough in training classes that whenever I show up with one they think I grew up in the 80's.

[Triple765]

I'm glad to have started on a DA/SA; I can relate to the 'I can shoot anything' & I think I can attribute it to my FNH. That said, I'd be ready to transition to striker fired exclusively from now on. As far as my self defense handguns go anyways. For hobby, anything & everything goes

[IVC]

DA/SA are popular because majority of people shoot them exclusively in the SA mode.

How many people do you see at your local range decocking a DA/SA gun before the first shot? This is especially true for variants such as SP-01 which don't even have a decocker. In addition, many who do go into the DA first shot will stack the trigger for accuracy instead of doing the proper pull-through for speed.

DA/SA are good for USPSA Production because of being essentially a SA gun after the initial shot and those who shoot DA/SA in Production practice it enough. For general self defense, DA/SA is slowly on its way out, no matter how melancholic we might feel about them.

Another contributing factor to decline in DA/SA for self defense is the availability of high quality kydex holsters for plastic strikers, so the system of "striker + holster" now acts as a very safe way to carry a gun such as Glock with a round in the chamber (yes, there are still people who carry empty...). It's no longer "Glock has too light/short trigger pull to carry loaded," it's now "Glock with a holster is a *system* that one carries and the trigger is no longer an issue for carry."

[DJD100]

DA/SA here, and don't forget another advantage, second strike ability.

[BB1776]

DA/SA aficionados, like those who prefer manual transmissions (and I do believe there is a significant overlap between the two), are people of superior skill and refinement. 1911 lovers fit in there, too, though they are a bit less refined. I thought this was common knowledge...

[hammy5150]

My first experience shooting (Glock 22 vs P229) biased me in favor of DA/SA and all of my guns since are hammer-fired (mostly DA/SA and one DAO for CC), I'll stubbornly cling to them until the bitter end.

DA/SA are popular because majority of people shoot them exclusively in the SA mode.

How many people do you see at your local range decocking a DA/SA gun before the first shot? This is especially true for variants such as SP-01 which don't even have a decocker. In addition, many who do go into the DA first shot will stack the trigger for accuracy instead of doing the proper pull-through for speed.

DA/SA are good for USPSA Production because of being essentially a SA gun after the initial shot and those who shoot DA/SA in Production practice it enough. For general self defense, DA/SA is slowly on its way out, no matter how melancholic we might feel about them.

Another contributing factor to decline in DA/SA for self defense is the availability of high quality kydex holsters for plastic strikers, so the system of "striker + holster" now acts as a very safe way to carry a gun such as Glock with a round in the chamber (yes, there are still people who carry empty...). It's no longer "Glock has too light/short trigger pull to carry loaded," it's now "Glock with a holster is a *system* that one carries and the trigger is no longer an issue for carry."

I do try to practice my DA/SA transitions every time I go shooting but I'm not where I'd like to be with them yet. And I've definitely noticed the people I'll take shooting with my guns will eventually try cocking the hammer into SA after a few mags, even on bobbed hammers where they have to actually stage the trigger to bring the hammer into SA.

[harleygsb]

I went from a striker to a DA/SA (CZ 75 BD). I have an unholstered loaded gun in the camper and felt like it was too easy to grab the gun in the night or even move it around and bump the trigger on the striker (M&P). I do not want to holster the gun at night (tough for a middle of the night grab - might as well not leave one in the chamber). I chamber a round, decock it and am confident even a bump would not fire the gun. I decock it every magazine reload in practice at the range. I also shoot revolvers and shoot them in DA and SA, so I get plenty of DA practice. I quite like my CZ. Incredibly comfortable in the hand and I really like the trigger.

[Romeo_alpha01]

I love both, so I have a gun that IS both DA/SA/Striker fired. But if the Walther P99 or variants like it didn’t exist, I would probably favor the DA/SA gun more than anything else.