ar pistol

[jamesob]

ok before the search comments come out i did but i want more info. a freind who is a ffl, has standard rra lar-15 lowers in stock and i want to build a single shot pistol out of one. i know that it doesn't have to be marked pistol in order for it to be a pistol as long as it's drosed as a pistol. can i assemble it as a single shot at his shop and be good to go or is their some mfg. complications with doing this? some say yes and others say no. he has no problem with me putting it together as long as it leaves a single shot. i want to be very clear when i do this.

[TZL]

as long as he's cool with it, it should be GTG

make sure the lower has not been dros'd as a rifle

[savs2k]

I thought you can't go from rifle to pistol. The lower had to start off for a pistol to begin with is what I remember. I could be wrong though. Someone correct me if i am?

[dfletcher]

ok before the search comments come out i did but i want more info. a freind who is a ffl, has standard rra lar-15 lowers in stock and i want to build a single shot pistol out of one. i know that it doesn't have to be marked pistol in order for it to be a pistol as long as it's drosed as a pistol. can i assemble it as a single shot at his shop and be good to go or is their some mfg. complications with doing this? some say yes and others say no. he has no problem with me putting it together as long as it leaves a single shot. i want to be very clear when i do this.

If you can 4473 it as a receiver only - not a rifle and not a handgun, but a receiver only - and DROS it as a handgun then you can build it as a handgun and it doesn't even have to be single shot. You can fix the magazine with a bullet button and and use a 10 round magazine.

Of course having tried this myself, the catch is DROSing it as a handgun. There's no RRA handgun listed on drop down listing on the DROS system. Others are trying to construct a way to eliminate or otherwise work around this issue.

[jamesob]

If you can 4473 it as a receiver only - not a rifle and not a handgun, but a receiver only - and DROS it as a handgun then you can build it as a handgun and it doesn't even have to be single shot. You can fix the magazine with a bullet button and and use a 10 round magazine.

Of course having tried this myself, the catch is DROSing it as a handgun. There's no RRA handgun listed on drop down listing on the DROS system. Others are trying to construct a way to eliminate or otherwise work around this issue.

it will be a single shot when im done with it.

[dfletcher]

OK. Here's the problem I ran into, maybe your knowing my result ahead of time will help in some way.

I went to a local gun store that had virgin, stripped AR lowers and said they would sell & DROS it as a handgun. We did the 4473 paperwork and they checked off the "receiver only" box - which is the correct thing to do. Handed over the receiver to the fellow inputting the DROS info - name, address, etc, all fine. Type of gun - handgun. Get to the brand of gun - no drop down box on the DROS program for "Stag Arms". So the catch - and this is what I think is being addressed elsewhere - is that the DROS program, by requiring entry of the "handgun" manufacturer and not having Stag as an option, brings things to a halt.

That's as far as I got, but I was told that Olympic Arms shows up on the DROS program as a handgun manufacturer & that if I had an Oly Arms stripped lower they would be able to 4473 that as a receiver only and DROS as a handgun.

Good luck.

[jamesob]

he just did a nodak ak single shot pistol and how he found it in the exemption, im sure rra will be in it.

[Cali-V]

... can i assemble it as a single shot at his shop and be good to go or is their some mfg. complications with doing this? some say yes and others say no. he has no problem with me putting it together as long as it leaves a single shot. i want to be very clear when i do this.

I've been told and have read in more than a few threads that the pistol should be in a single shot configuration before being logged in to the FFL's book... If you ffl is not licensed to manufacture, how could he have received and logged a stripped receiver, and then sell it out as a 12133(b) compliant pistol?




2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law
12125 thru 12133 Handgun Safety Testing
Section 12133(b) states as follows

12133.

(a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:

(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

[dfletcher]

Being in single shot configuration BEFORE received by the CA FFL is my understanding also. If it's a frame only then it's not a single shot and it can not meet the DROS exception requirement. Further, if the gun is configured as a single shot prior to sale it would not be 4473'd as a receiver only.

I think what's being compared is a fully functional single shot AR and a stripped receiver. For DROS and roster exemption purposes (as in the single shot is and the stripped receiver is not) they're two different animals.

If the RRA AR to be DROS'd is in single shot configuration when it arrives at the FFL though I'd say you're correct - you'll be fine.

[jamesob]

I've been told and have read in more than a few threads that the pistol should be in a single shot configuration before being logged in to the FFL's book... If you ffl is not licensed to manufacture, how could he have received and logged a stripped receiver, and then sell it out as a 12133(b) compliant pistol?




2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law
12125 thru 12133 Handgun Safety Testing
Section 12133(b) states as follows

12133.

(a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:

(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

the highlighted part is just when its all together and nothing to do with it being imported into the state assembled.

[JeffM]

Is your friend an 07 FFL as a manufacturer?

If you assemble the gun in his shop, while the gun is in his custody, you are acting as an agent of the FFL. If the gun is logged in as a receiver and logged out as a pistol, a manufacturing process has occurred.

There are a few threads about the issue.

The one exemption that I've identified in the BATFE letters I've read is if the FFL does it one time, and one time only. In that case he is not doing it in the normal course of business.

I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. And I am not a lawyer. YMMV.

[jamesob]

isn't the receiver already mfg. by rra and the ffl just designating wether its a rifle or pistol?

[Quiet]

isn't the receiver already mfg. by rra and the ffl just designating wether its a rifle or pistol?

The reciever is a "other" firearm.

The FFL adding parts to make it a rifle or pistol is taking a "other" firearm and manufacturing it into a "long gun" or "handgun".

[technique]

isn't the receiver already mfg. by rra and the ffl just designating wether its a rifle or pistol?

pistol or rifle is designated by the MFG not the FFL it goes to. Also, another bump in your plan would be...If the receivers have already come into the shop and gone into the shops bound books (as they should), normally there is a longgun book and handgun book. So if you are DROSed a lower out of a Longgun book as a pistol, that wouldn't make any sense....especially during an audit.

[JeffM]

isn't the receiver already mfg. by rra and the ffl just designating wether its a rifle or pistol?

BATFE classifies a lot of different things as "manufacturing"

Adding parts to an already manufactured receiver is seen as another "manufacturing" process. By adding a barrel, FCG, other parts, etc, you are changing the nature of the firearm.

Individuals can to it to guns they already own.

FFLs need an 07 to do it in the course of business because they are "manufacturing" for profit.

The CA roster mucks it all up because the transfer can't occur until the gun is exempt, so it's not "yours". If the FFL does it to make it transferable, they are changing the nature of the firearm, which is "manufacturing" in the course of business.


I never said it makes sense. It is the .gov after all.