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Where can I find 1,440 ft/s FMJ 9mm?

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  • #31
    Dogbite
    Member
    • Nov 2014
    • 407

    Originally posted by kurac
    I am thinking your best bet is to find the hottest 124gr fmj 9mm you get get delivered then shoot it out of a 16" or longer barrel, that should get you there.
    14" + barrel is doable. 9mm excels with longer barrel lengths. 147gr is not affected as much by using a longer barrel.
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime

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    • #32
      offrdmania
      Veteran Member
      • Mar 2008
      • 4033

      Keep in mind, you must know where a commercial ammo manufacturer got their ballistics from. What was the platform and length of barrel that they got their results from? Ive seen handgun ammo ballistics before but then in very small fine print it says tests were conducted in a 24" barrel. Hardly useful information when using the ammo in a handgun.
      Previous iTrader rating, over 150 Positive ratings

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      • #33
        JTROKS
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Nov 2007
        • 13093

        There's a reason Buffalo Bore is sticking to +p+ only and not venturing into 9mm Major loads, they dont want to be sued out of business. The OP's customer should look into 9x23 Winchester as it is the only commercially loaded ammo that can fill his requirements.
        The wise man said just find your place
        In the eye of the storm
        Seek the roses along the way
        Just beware of the thorns...
        K. Meine

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        • #34
          CandG
          Spent $299 for this text!
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Apr 2014
          • 16970

          Originally posted by geyas
          interesting thread, I also have the same question
          Unless it's just for some kind of science experiment, I would highly recommend looking at a different cartridge if you're trying to squeeze 550+ ft/lbs out of your 9mm. It's really not designed for that and it will, at best, cause excessive wear on your gun, or at worst, blow your gun up.

          9x25, 10mm, .357 sig, 7.62x25, .45 Super, and even .40s&w are all cartridges that are actually designed to put out that kind of energy. This is one of those scenarios where adapting what you already own is not a particularly good idea, when there are so many other safer options available.
          Last edited by CandG; 08-25-2017, 4:38 PM.
          Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


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          • #35
            sigstroker
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Jan 2009
            • 19008

            Yeah, .357 SIG would do the job. I clocked factory ammo at 1400 out of my 229.

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            • #36
              CandG
              Spent $299 for this text!
              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
              • Apr 2014
              • 16970

              124gr @ 1440fps is, by the way, 571ft/lbs of muzzle energy. That's getting into 10mm territory. 9mm is designed to put out about half that.
              Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


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              • #37
                Carcassonne
                Veteran Member
                • Jul 2012
                • 4897

                Originally posted by cockedandglocked
                If even Underwood's 124gr +P+ ammo only gets you 1300fps, then you're going to have a heck of a time finding any that do 1440fps. That sounds like a dangerously high pressure for a 9mm chamber.

                I can get 1450 fps with standard 9mm ammo from a 14.5" barrel.

                The OP didn't say what barrel length was required.


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                Last edited by Carcassonne; 08-25-2017, 5:51 PM.
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                • #38
                  MrOrange
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 2262

                  Originally posted by Ubermcoupe
                  Like Hirtenberg L7A1?

                  I think most of that has dried up. Might want to check the sub-gun boards.
                  Originally posted by hermosabeach
                  I'm glad this topic was posted as I learned something new today....
                  Me too. I'd heard of supposedly hotter subgun ammo, but this stuff is crazy. Designed to get an open-bolt smg to function in the artic, it barely makes 1450 fps out of a Stirling, with what, an 8" barrel?

                  I'm going to side with those that say that nickel's customer is asking for for something incredibly dangerous, if not impossible.
                  I meant, it is my opinion that...






                  I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence
                  I would advise violence. - M. Gandhi
                  You're my kind of stupid. - M. Reynolds

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                  • #39
                    JTROKS
                    I need a LIFE!!
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 13093

                    Originally posted by MrOrange
                    Me too. I'd heard of supposedly hotter subgun ammo, but this stuff is crazy. Designed to get an open-bolt smg to function in the artic, it barely makes 1450 fps out of a Stirling, with what, an 8" barrel?

                    I'm going to side with those that say that nickel's customer is asking for for something incredibly dangerous, if not impossible.
                    It is dangerous and the pistols using such ammo were purposely built to handle 50K PSI. It would be very unwise to shoot these 9mm Major loads through a factory gun chambered in 9mm Parabellum.
                    The wise man said just find your place
                    In the eye of the storm
                    Seek the roses along the way
                    Just beware of the thorns...
                    K. Meine

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                    • #40
                      rlewpolar
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 1447

                      Originally posted by hermosabeach
                      L7A1- This ammunition was produced between 1990 and 1992. Many samples exceed the NATO maximum chamber pressure specification for small arms, which is 50,000 PSI (345 MPa). For this reason, the British MOD ceased to use it. It was replaced with:

                      L12A1- This ammunition is substantially similar, but uses a slightly reduced charge in order to stay under the 50,000 PSI NATO maximum pressure specs.

                      Both of these rounds feature a 124-grain FMJ ball bullet, and produce a maximum velocity of about 1,500 fps.

                      In terms of the commercial availability of these rounds, the MOD released 12 million rounds of L7A1 ammunition as surplus. Since the ammunition is packaged in a 1,200 round case, this means that 10,000 cases were released. Since HP refuses to sell this ammunition to the public, and only produced L7A1 in 1990, 1991, and 1992, and only for the British contract, that means that the entire world's supply consists of 10,000 cases.

                      Likewise, within several months of release, BATF banned the importation of the ammunition, due to its being unsafe for use in handguns. This second fact makes the ammunition even more rare in the United States.


                      Beware of attempts to sell ammunition which is falsely advertised as " Hirt SMG ammo ". Many dealers, either due to ignorance or fraudulence, will sell standard Hirtenberger ammunition and claim that it is the SMG rounds.

                      L7A1 ammunition can be identified by its headstamps:

                      'HP' (for Hirtenberger Patronen)
                      '90', '91', or '92' (year of production)
                      'L7A1' (ammunition type)
                      NATO proof mark (a circle with a cross inside)

                      If the headstamp doesn't contain "L7A1", it is NOT the SMG rounds.

                      Some forgeries of this ammunition have been produced in other nations (particularly in Darra, Pakistan, where many forgery firearms and ammunition are produced for the black market). The easiest way to tell that the ammunition is forged, is the absence, or poor application, of a red sealant ring around (and slightly onto) the primer.

                      Any ammunition marked "L12A1" is either a forgery or stolen, since HP produces it exclusively for British MOD.

                      The only other manufacturers of "SMG" ammunition (to my knowledge) are:

                      Israel Military Industries (IMI), who produce the ammunition packaged in either plain brown boxes or boxes with the " UZI " logo. These rounds are black-tipped, but the black tip designates them only as high-pressure, not specifically as SMG rounds; and

                      Remington, who have produced a 9mm SMG round loaded with a standard JHP (not Golden Saber) bullet. Any company advertising Remington SMG Golden Sabre rounds is falsely advertising.

                      Note that Remington only produces the SMG rounds on a per-request basis, and only for government agencies. Likewise, IMI produces the SMG ammunition rarely (mostly for Israeli and American military contracts) and very few samples of it are in circulation in the US, mostly in the hands of collectors.

                      SMG-specific rounds are NOT SAFE to fire in any handgun. There are a few handguns designs which can tolerate it SPARINGLY, but I do not recommend this practice. Remember, the SAAMI maximum chamber pressure for 9mm +P rounds is 38,500 PSI, and the NATO maximum chamber pressure for small arms, including rifles, is 50,000 PSI. SMG-specific rounds meet or exceed the 50,000 PSI mark.

                      Note also that SMG rounds are likewise unsafe to fire in many submachineguns, and virtually all pistol-cartridge carbines, since both are usually engineered for 9mm pistol ammunition. Only a very few models of carbines and submachine guns are suitable for firing the ammunition in; if in doubt, contact the manufacturer and ask them about the use of L7A1 ammunition in their guns.


                      Sometimes I am amazed at the knowledge of some of the Calgunners out there


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      • #41
                        buffybuster
                        Veteran Member
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 2615

                        124gr@1440fps... From a 5"-6" barrel pistol, that's Major9 territory. It's been done but it's on the ragged edge. Much easier/better to shoot +P's from a 9x19mm carbine, if the bullet has to come from a 9x19 case. Though I don't know why that would matter.
                        Luck favors the prepared.

                        The original battle plan did not survive initial contact with the enemy.

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                        • #42
                          SLO1911Fan
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 1483

                          I'm surprised no one mentioned the 356TSW. Last I heard starline is running brass again and Apex wants to play with the cartridge.
                          I'm a big old, bourbon-soaked cigar-huffing ***, as God in his infinite wisdom meant me to be. - Charlie Sheen.

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                          • #43
                            OCEquestrian
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Jun 2017
                            • 6778

                            "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." ----Sen. Barry Goldwater

                            Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ----Benjamin Franklin

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                            • #44
                              nitroxdiver
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 6979

                              I have nothing helpful to contribute, but wanted to say thank you to hermosabeach for a very educational contribution.


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                              • #45
                                JTROKS
                                I need a LIFE!!
                                • Nov 2007
                                • 13093

                                Originally posted by SLO1911Fan
                                I'm surprised no one mentioned the 356TSW. Last I heard starline is running brass again and Apex wants to play with the cartridge.
                                You missed post #25.

                                _-------------------_

                                I'm waiting on the OP to provide a bit more detail on this project
                                The wise man said just find your place
                                In the eye of the storm
                                Seek the roses along the way
                                Just beware of the thorns...
                                K. Meine

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