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atf regs are same 3.7 ounces if you ever intend to sell
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Both of these issues are a bit up in the air.
My reading of the law is that the gun must be listed in some database prior to July 2018 to be exempt... not merely serialized.
On the conversion to semiauto, see Rick's comments above regarding an unfavorable 4th ruling... but there has been no test case.- Rich
Originally posted by dantoddComment
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Thousands of California residents converted their single shot handguns to semi auto during the SSE1 days and I am not aware of any issues that resulted from it.
If you browse around calguns you will clearly see people (illegally) building straight to semi-auto, an action for which the DOJ has taken issue with, including prosecution. You will certainly be on a better legal footing than those folks if your build originated as a single shot.
As far as serialization is concerned, I'm reaching out to 80% arms (a california company) to ask which attorney advised them on the information they give in the FAQ of their website on this topic. If I remember, when I spoke with Davis & Associates, Jason Davis shares the same opinion as 80% Arms on AB 857. Perhaps he represents 80% arms. I will edit this post if this information turns out to be incorrect.
sigpicComment
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Under Federal laws, firearms can not be made so that they can not be detected by metal detectors/x-ray machines. [18 USC 922(p)]
As part of those laws, 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel is required for a "security exemplar". [18 USC 922(p)(2)(C)(I)]
All commercially made/sold polymer firearms are made using various blends of polymers/fiberglass/etc. that makes them detectable by metal detectors/x-ray machines.
Because they can be detected, they are not required to contain 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel.
What the CA legislature did was take that Federal 3.7oz stainless steel requirement for a "security exemplar" and misapply it to the CA "home built firearm" laws.
18 USC 922
(p)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm—
(A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal detectors calibrated and operated to detect the Security Exemplar; or
(B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the fabrication of the component.
(2) For purposes of this subsection—
(A) the term “firearm” does not include the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(B) the term “major component” means, with respect to a firearm, the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or receiver of the firearm; and
(C) the term “Security Exemplar” means an object, to be fabricated at the direction of the Attorney General, that is—
(i) constructed of, during the 12-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of this subsection, 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel in a shape resembling a handgun; and
(ii) suitable for testing and calibrating metal detectors:
Provided, however, That at the close of such 12-month period, and at appropriate times thereafter the Attorney General shall promulgate regulations to permit the manufacture, importation, sale, shipment, delivery, possession, transfer, or receipt of firearms previously prohibited under this subparagraph that are as detectable as a “Security Exemplar” which contains 3.7 ounces of material type 17–4 PH stainless steel, in a shape resembling a handgun, or such lesser amount as is detectable in view of advances in state-of-the-art developments in weapons detection technology.
(3) Under such rules and regulations as the Attorney General shall prescribe, this subsection shall not apply to the manufacture, possession, transfer, receipt, shipment, or delivery of a firearm by a licensed manufacturer or any person acting pursuant to a contract with a licensed manufacturer, for the purpose of examining and testing such firearm to determine whether paragraph (1) applies to such firearm. The Attorney General shall ensure that rules and regulations adopted pursuant to this paragraph do not impair the manufacture of prototype firearms or the development of new technology.
(4) The Attorney General shall permit the conditional importation of a firearm by a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, for examination and testing to determine whether or not the unconditional importation of such firearm would violate this subsection.
(5) This subsection shall not apply to any firearm which—
(A) has been certified by the Secretary of Defense or the Director of Central Intelligence, after consultation with the Attorney General and the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, as necessary for military or intelligence applications; and
(B) is manufactured for and sold exclusively to military or intelligence agencies of the United States.
(6) This subsection shall not apply with respect to any firearm manufactured in, imported into, or possessed in the United States before the date of the enactment of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.Last edited by Quiet; 03-10-2017, 11:32 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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Under SSE, it was legal to do it.
There were no laws/regulations that prohibited it.
Which is why they altered the SSE to be SSE2.
Under SSE2, it was kind of gray.
Which is why, under the "home built firearm" laws they made the definition of "manufacturing" to include assembling parts onto a firearm.
This would make it illegal to do, since you would no longer be modifying an existing pistol but manufacturing an unsafe semi-auto pistol.
Basically...
Before 01-01-2015, it was legal.
From 01-01-2015 to 12-31-2016, it was unknown.
Starting 01-01-2017, it appears to be illegal.Last edited by Quiet; 03-10-2017, 11:38 PM.sigpic
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).Comment
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Interesting. It appears that people on this forum are openly building semiauto configurations (illegally?) and the 80 percent arms website also suggests it is legal to do so.
Sent from my LEX727 using TapatalkComment
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It's definitely a part of the new law worth contemplating.
It would seem that the legislature limited the scope of that definition to Chapter 3, which exclusively deals with identifying information/serialization. I would be inclined to think that it leaves the definition of manufacture used in the rest of the penal code intact (including section 32000) otherwise they would have put the new definition into the preliminary provisions.
I'm going to run this by an attorney to be sure. I'll post my findings here.sigpicComment
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To clarify, 80% arms is claiming that serialization that meets federal requirements prior to july 2018 means you wont have to register with the state of california.
As far as 80% semi autos are concerned, building an 80% semi auto long gun doesn't run afoul of the handgun-specific pc32000.
For 80% handguns, the exemption to pc32000 is handguns built as a single shot break top or bolt action with a barrel length more than 6 inches and overall length more than 10.5 inches.sigpicComment
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You've got an excellent point here, but we need to take note that there is no other definition of "Manufacture" contained in the code.
Where words in a statute are undefined, a court is free to interpret the meaning of those words, and they often due so according to their common meaning and as used in other case decisions.
The concern here is that a California court, in so doing, would chose to apply the AB 857 definition, even though it would be required to do so.
In looking to other published case decisions, a California court would also likely be persuaded by the Fourth Circuit's decision as well.If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.Comment
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